Advice on Court Date |
Advice on Court Date |
Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 4 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,768 |
Hi
Hoping for some advice and feedback with people that may have had the same experience - Had 6 points on my license already - May 2018 received 3 points NIP for A412 Uxbridge Rd, submitted forms pleading guilty as driver(40 speed limit doing 55mph) - June 2018, same road got another 3 points but further down the road(40 speed limit, doing 54mph) - Submitted a letter on 2nd NIP with a letter requesting they could show leniency and offer me a course(only doing 1 mph over the limit), but got a letter back saying they cannot do anything - Got a SJPN for both NIP to be heard in Court on 9th Nov at Oxford Court, completed a mitigation circumstances mentioning things like how i travel to work every day and need a car, my wife drives but she is on a school run and cannot drop me. How it would be a great issue if i lost my license The above is a quick summary, but i understand i attend court, i plead guilty(as i have done already). I get an option to say something, try to plead with court to show leniency on my sentence Any pointers or assistance is appreciated pls thank you in advance This post has been edited by Khalil: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:47 |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:12
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
If you reach 12 points within 3 years then you face a totting ban of 6 months.
You will be given the opportunity to submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce that ban, potentially to none. The impact on others carries more weight. How the points were accumulated is irrelevant - there’s no ‘leniency’ angle per se. Expect to be asked awkward questions about your travel arrangements - you’ll have to show they are truly exceptional and not just an inconvenience. This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:13 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:26
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
As JLC sways you have to show EXCEPTIONAL hardship, data suggests that circa 25% of totters have an exceptional hardship plea accepted (no data on the ones declined).
If your partner can drive it suggests your only issue is likely to be your commute so you need to show what alternatives there are (public transport, cycling, walking, taxi, work mate giving you a lift) and why they aren’t feasible, even then the court may not consider it EXCEPTIONAL. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:30
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 4 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,768 |
As JLC sways you have to show EXCEPTIONAL hardship, data suggests that circa 25% of totters have an exceptional hardship plea accepted (no data on the ones declined). If your partner can drive it suggests your only issue is likely to be your commute so you need to show what alternatives there are (public transport, cycling, walking, taxi, work mate giving you a lift) and why they aren’t feasible, even then the court may not consider it EXCEPTIONAL. thank you If you reach 12 points within 3 years then you face a totting ban of 6 months. You will be given the opportunity to submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce that ban, potentially to none. The impact on others carries more weight. How the points were accumulated is irrelevant - there’s no ‘leniency’ angle per se. Expect to be asked awkward questions about your travel arrangements - you’ll have to show they are truly exceptional and not just an inconvenience. Thank you |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:03
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
There are no downsides in attempting an EH plea but be prepared. Expect lots of questions and have the answers ready as Rookie mentions above. Don't dwell on how the points were accumulated - just your situation.
Simplistically you are to be punished but the potential saviour of the EH is when others are impacted who are 'innocent'. Even losing your job in itself may not be considered truly exceptional. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:31
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
And remember not to drive to the court hearing.
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:41
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
And remember not to drive to the court hearing. Or more precisely, do not expect to drive back. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 18:28
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#8
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,219 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
There is no such thing as a "3 points NIP". If we have to guess as to what actually happened, our advice will at best be 'woolly'.
Were all of the offences within 3 years of each other? N.B. Only the dates of the offences matter for totting, not the date of NIP issuing, fixed penalty or conviction. What charge(s) are on the SJPN(s)? Taking a woolly guess, I suspect that there might be an s. 172 charge (or 2) in there. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 07:45
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 9 Nov 2016 Member No.: 88,346 |
- May 2018 received 3 points NIP for A412 Uxbridge Rd, submitted forms pleading guilty as driver(40 speed limit doing 55mph) - June 2018, same road got another 3 points but further down the road(40 speed limit, doing 54mph) Any pointers or assistance is appreciated pls 55 in 40 is 15mph over the limit 54 in 40 is 14mph over the limit Enforcement usually starts at 10% + 2mph (so 46 in a 40), and offers of SAC usually end at 10% + 9mph (so 53 in a 40), so bear this in mind in the future. I haven't been through the totting up process, but things usually suggested on this site for an EH plea are: - Impact on family (wife, children, parents etc.) - Exceptional impact on journeys (you live in a remote area with no bus routes, trains, bikes etc.) - Impact on employees if you're an employer and people could lose their jobs as a result of this. Be prepared to be quizzed on these too, for example: 'If you can't take your parents to their hospital appointments, do you have siblings, relatives or close friends who could?' Hope this helps. *Edited because I don't know what I'm talking about (Thanks JLC and Rookie). This post has been edited by Dwaynedouglas: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 07:27 -------------------- I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 07:53
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,580 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Enforcement is at +10%+2...
+9 is for a course. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 15:57
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 4 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,768 |
There is no such thing as a "3 points NIP". If we have to guess as to what actually happened, our advice will at best be 'woolly'. Were all of the offences within 3 years of each other? N.B. Only the dates of the offences matter for totting, not the date of NIP issuing, fixed penalty or conviction. What charge(s) are on the SJPN(s)? Taking a woolly guess, I suspect that there might be an s. 172 charge (or 2) in there. Thank you all for you advice so far, I can confirm all offences where within 3yrs Attached is scan SJPN Charge Sheet(sorry scan isn't great) Regarding the EH, the points that I was thinking of raising where - Myself and my wife to drive, but as the wife has children school drop off and her own class she cannot drop me off. She cannot drop/pick me up - Public transport is possible, but as I start at 8am till 4:45pm, it would mean I would need to leave home at 5:30am each morning and would not get back until 7:30pm(that is based on good run) - Public transport involves 4-5 changes one-way, based on this I have greater chance of delays/missing my journey - I am self-employed and wife and daughter work part in the business, if I was to lose my job (current contract), this would affect them - I can get another job, but at moment the market is not very good I am looking at no obtaining another role until mar 2019 - My business means I need to visit other clients, this can be evening and weekend(to be honest they may say my wife could take me, so may not mention this) |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:43
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That’s not the strongest EH case.
How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 17:08
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,315 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
OP, any reason the kids can’t walk or cycle?
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:11
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 4 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,768 |
That’s not the strongest EH case. How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway? Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus. Thanks rookie for pointing my mistakes Thank u This post has been edited by Khalil: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:53 |
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Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:20
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So your a contractor, not working for yourself.
This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 12:04 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 07:44
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 9 Nov 2016 Member No.: 88,346 |
Enforcement is at +10%+2... +9 is for a course. Dammit! I'll edit to reflect. Thanks -------------------- I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 07:56
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,260 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Enforcement usually starts at 10% + 2mph (so 46 in a 40), and offers of SAC usually END at 10% + 9mph (so 53 in a 40), so bear this in mind in the future. FTFY -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 08:26
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,315 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
That’s not the strongest EH case. How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway? Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus. Your local authority is obliged to provide transport if kids are more than 3(?) miles from nearest suitable school. |
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Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:24
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#19
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 4 Nov 2018 Member No.: 100,768 |
That’s not the strongest EH case. How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway? Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus. Your local authority is obliged to provide transport if kids are more than 3(?) miles from nearest suitable school. thanks, but we decided to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service. thank for pointing out mistake This post has been edited by Khalil: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:01 |
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Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:05
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,634 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
thanks, but we deceived to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service. You probably shouldn’t admit that on a public forum. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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