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52m contravention - Turning Left into Cornwall Road from Stamford Street SE1
Jackoman69
post Sun, 31 Oct 2021 - 17:13
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Hi all,

I have seen a few threads on this junction where people have received PCNs. We received a PCN here for entering Cromwell Street where there are "no vehicle" signs near the entrance to the street and hoping someone can help.

After reading threads here I went back to the junction to investigate the condition of the no left turn signage on Stamford Street. What I found was that the signage had been turned back around, so was facing the right way but it has been vandalised so that the no left turn and writing below has been completely covered over. See link below to photos. I also have a full video showing the way along Stamford street turning into Cornwall Road which shows the difficulty in identifying the "no Vehicle" signs which are partially hidden and by the time you drive into the street it is too late to do anything about.

https://imgur.com/t1CyYQy

https://imgur.com/4siIIGy

https://imgur.com/IPD9Dph

https://imgur.com/gcmwSFy

I made representations on the basis the sign was vandalised but was turned down as it had not been reported to them previously despite sending the photos. I am therefore planning an appeal.

I would be so grateful for any advice when doing this.

Will choosing a postal decision rather than a personal hearing bode negatively for me?

Thanks in advance

This post has been edited by Jackoman69: Sun, 31 Oct 2021 - 17:13
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cp8759
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 13:48
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Keep checking the tribunal portal at least once a week. In the last 10 days, check every day.


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Jackoman69
post Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 14:19
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 13:48) *
Keep checking the tribunal portal at least once a week. In the last 10 days, check every day.


Will do

Thank you
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Jackoman69
post Fri, 26 Nov 2021 - 15:21
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Dear all,

So Lambeth have just sent me the pack of evidence they have submitted.

They state that my photos are not dated. This is incorrect as they have been uploaded from my phone which gives the date of the photo in the file name (20211006 being the date the photo was taken in reverse). I am not technical enough to put on my own dates to photos as they have done however I would point out that their alleged photo of the sign on the 14th September and only 6 minutes before does not appear accurate to me. It was raining at the time as was evidenced in the media of my vehicle turning into the road. It is not raining in the photo taken 6 minutes before but that day it was raining almost constantly across London. I also question the legitimacy of the dates put on their photos.

I attached the files what I consider the three relevant evidence parts that are not already on the thread. If anything else is relevant then let me know

Am I bang to rights on this or is there hope?

Thanks all

Jack

This post has been edited by Jackoman69: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 - 15:50
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Evidence_Checklist.pdf ( 71.39K ) Number of downloads: 20
Attached File  Evidence_Form_B.pdf ( 262.73K ) Number of downloads: 34
Attached File  Evidence_Form_K.pdf ( 49.91K ) Number of downloads: 13
 
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cp8759
post Fri, 26 Nov 2021 - 18:47
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Your best bet is if you let me act as your representative at the tribunal (no charge), if you want to take me up on that drop me a PM please.


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cp8759
post Mon, 29 Nov 2021 - 19:11
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Huston, we have a problem (this is why I always say we need to see the evidence pack):

Council submission:

Due to the temporary sign being turned to face the road rather than oncoming traffic from April to June 2021 a CEO daily visits the location and takes images of the sign in situ. The Council have submitted in Evidence type J images of the “No Left Turn” sign taken between 13/09/2021 and 15/09/2021. The mage from 14/09/2021 was taken at 13:20pm 6 mins prior to the contravention occurring.





Without compelling evidence to show otherwise, the tribunal is not going to doubt the accuracy of the council photos. I have to say that it now seems extremely likely the signs were defaced at some point after the contravention occurred. Let's see what others think but present I struggle to see any viable arguments.


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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 14 Dec 2021 - 14:59
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Similar situation:-
2210779167
Decision Date 13 Dec 2021

I was able to speak with the appellant for the appointed hearing on 13 December. He was represented by Mr Barnard [LTDA]. The Council case was represented by Ms Minta-Jacobs.

I had watched the CCTV clip shortly before the hearing and did so again during it.

Mr Barnard gave evidence of having recently visited the junction and physically measured the extent of setback of the signage prohibiting motor vehicles. I am familiar with arguments over these being set back with the result that they may be rather easily missed.

The appellant himself said that he had recently returned to driving his cab again after a Covid break. I accepted that he had not previously driven down Cornwall Road, or the adjoining road during his extended break from work.

The clip shows the taxi concerned travelling at a swift pace but that is not remarkable given the broadly open road which I have inferred was the case in this appeal.

During the hearing there was discussion relating to the preliminary no left turn "warning" sign. Council photographic evidence of this showed it aligned in a correct and obvious way on 13 August.

Discussion covered the movable character of that sign and how at the time concerned the Council was not doing the daily sweeps it later introduced.

Taking the evidence overall and accepting that the preliminary sign was probably missed on 16 August on account of angle I have decided there is insufficient to regard the contravention as proved on this occasion.

I have recorded this appeal as allowed.


___________




Mick


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