PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Speed Limit Changes (Reductions)
speedfighter23
post Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 02:34
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999




Hi guys,

I am really getting confused with all the speed limit changes in London. On the A40 overpass on the way where you turn off into Shepherd's Bush, it now says 30 MPH when it used to be 40 MPH, but they only put repeaters, there is no big speed limit sign denoting a change in speed limits from 40 MPH to 30 MPH. Is that even legal? Also now I am confused as they have average speed cameras there, but it starts at the 40 MPH limit and now the average speed camera zone ends in a 30 MPH limit. So how does that work?

All I am seeing in London is a reduction of speed limits, but it is confusing because it seems they are doing a half job, on another section joining the A40 it is 40, then you see small repeaters saying it is 30, then a big repeater saying it is 40 again! Then it goes from 40 to 30 and all of a sudden you see a small 40 repeater never having the big one as if the speed limit never changed in the first place (like it was before).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 02:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 13:39
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 45,798
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



I would imagine there is a system of street lighting there, so there shouldn’t be any repeaters at all (or do you mean the terminal signs are repeater size?).

On a road with a system of street lighting no signs are needed at all to convict you of speeding, though of course there is no concept of legal or illegal when it comes to signs but a question of enforceable or not (which isn’t the same thing).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 13:43
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



It sounds like they might be in the process of implementing a new limit. This happened with the blanket 20 limit in Southwark, where they put up random repeaters for ages before the terminal signs went up. You could complain to the highway authority, as really all the signs should be covered up until they're all good to go.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 13:26
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 14:39) *
I would imagine there is a system of street lighting there, so there shouldn’t be any repeaters at all (or do you mean the terminal signs are repeater size?).

On a road with a system of street lighting no signs are needed at all to convict you of speeding, though of course there is no concept of legal or illegal when it comes to signs but a question of enforceable or not (which isn’t the same thing).


Hi, what makes this different is that it is on a overpass, the A40 so it is not a normal road, but a 'motorway'/freeway whatever you call it. So it has 30 MPH repeaters, but there is no speed limit change large sign that you usually have. So I guess they are just changing things and haven't come round to it yet?

What I want to know is that 30 MPH speed limit enforceable without having a big sign signifying a change in speed limit and just having 30 MPH small repeaters dotted around.

I just think the council or whoever is responsible for the speed limit reductions are just being a bit shoddy with their work and are being confusing due to their obsession with lowering speed limits in London.

Will report back if I get a fine with teh average speed cameras that changed from 40 to 30.

Just called highways england, they said that part of the A40 is managed by TFL. No wonder the signage is a mess, it's part of Sadiq Khan's mismanagement umbrella.

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 13:26
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 14:08
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



The A40 is not a motorway, and unless it's a non-motorway special road (which are rare in the extreme), it won't have 30 mph repeaters either. Can you post a google street view link to the location? Also, do you have any pictures (dashcam footage?) of these "repeaters"?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
big_mac
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 14:36
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 521
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Member No.: 32,760



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 14:39) *
I would imagine there is a system of street lighting there

can't see any on street view
https://goo.gl/maps/99DiLNQ9AXWXQJsn8
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 16:29
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,740
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (big_mac @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 14:39) *
I would imagine there is a system of street lighting there

can't see any on street view
https://goo.gl/maps/99DiLNQ9AXWXQJsn8

Street lighting starts before the Shepherd's Bush/White City exit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 18:40
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (big_mac @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 15:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 14:39) *
I would imagine there is a system of street lighting there

can't see any on street view
https://goo.gl/maps/99DiLNQ9AXWXQJsn8


Speed limit change happened like 2-3 months ago and that image was taken in July 2019 so it wont show it anyway. I checked the street view and it does not show the latest changes, and obviously I cant take a pic when I am driving to show it to you guys.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149566,-0....6384!8i8192

This is where the repeaters start for 30 MPH Eastbound on the A40 under the 'new regime'. Westbound it is now 30 MPH all the way from Baker Street until that sign where it says 40 here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5150051,-0....6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 18:43
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Korting
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 20:15
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,296
Joined: 13 May 2010
Member No.: 37,524



Street lighting starts at the M25 all the way through the A40.

Why on earth has the limit been reduced to 30MPH? It could easily be 40 or 50 limit without causing problems.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 20:35
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 21:15) *
Street lighting starts at the M25 all the way through the A40.

Why on earth has the limit been reduced to 30MPH? It could easily be 40 or 50 limit without causing problems.


Well they hate cars what do you expect.

I'm still confused as to whether the average speed cameras there are still programmed to 40 or whether they reduced them to 30!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 20:37
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Robbo22
post Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 13:35
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Member No.: 12,424



QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 21:15) *
Street lighting starts at the M25 all the way through the A40.

Why on earth has the limit been reduced to 30MPH? It could easily be 40 or 50 limit without causing problems.

Use this bit regularly. There is a sign up to say the 30mph is to "protect the bridge joints".

Much like at the start of the average speed camera zone on the A40 East. They have two cameras that cover two different speed limit areas - First camera between Hillingdon Circus and Target in a 50mph, but the limit changes down to 40 just before the Target and the second camera, in the now 40mph zone isn't until the Dunelm turn off. Never heard of anyone getting issued a ticket on this stretch.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 15:06
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 19:40) *
Speed limit change happened like 2-3 months ago and that image was taken in July 2019 so it wont show it anyway. I checked the street view and it does not show the latest changes, and obviously I cant take a pic when I am driving to show it to you guys.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149566,-0....6384!8i8192

Dashcam, or take a passenger?

The main carriageway is not illuminated: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149856,-0....6384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5151193,-0....6384!8i8192

There are some street lights on the slip roads, but they don't count. So a 30 limit would need repeaters but not terminal signs, as there's no change of limit. This is because where a 30 limit due to street lights then continues past the end of the lit section, this is indicated by repeaters alone as the limit isn't changing, it even says as much in the Traffic Signs Manual.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TonyS
post Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 15:19
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 975
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
From: Scotland
Member No.: 60,732



QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Sun, 13 Sep 2020 - 03:34) *
Also now I am confused as they have average speed cameras there, but it starts at the 40 MPH limit and now the average speed camera zone ends in a 30 MPH limit. So how does that work?

Average speed could work across two speed limits, but I don't know if they ever do. The maths is straightforward so long as the distance to the speed limit change is known.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 23:45
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 16:06) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 19:40) *
Speed limit change happened like 2-3 months ago and that image was taken in July 2019 so it wont show it anyway. I checked the street view and it does not show the latest changes, and obviously I cant take a pic when I am driving to show it to you guys.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149566,-0....6384!8i8192

Dashcam, or take a passenger?

The main carriageway is not illuminated: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149856,-0....6384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5151193,-0....6384!8i8192

There are some street lights on the slip roads, but they don't count. So a 30 limit would need repeaters but not terminal signs, as there's no change of limit. This is because where a 30 limit due to street lights then continues past the end of the lit section, this is indicated by repeaters alone as the limit isn't changing, it even says as much in the Traffic Signs Manual.


The issue is it is a 40 that has been reduced to a 30 and there are only small repeaters with no big sign signifying the change from 40 to 30, that's where the confusion is.

QUOTE (Robbo22 @ Tue, 15 Sep 2020 - 14:35) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 14 Sep 2020 - 21:15) *
Street lighting starts at the M25 all the way through the A40.

Why on earth has the limit been reduced to 30MPH? It could easily be 40 or 50 limit without causing problems.

Use this bit regularly. There is a sign up to say the 30mph is to "protect the bridge joints".

Much like at the start of the average speed camera zone on the A40 East. They have two cameras that cover two different speed limit areas - First camera between Hillingdon Circus and Target in a 50mph, but the limit changes down to 40 just before the Target and the second camera, in the now 40mph zone isn't until the Dunelm turn off. Never heard of anyone getting issued a ticket on this stretch.


Yeah me either and it usually takes a while for people to slow down to the new lower speedlimits, so if they were actually on the ball many people would get caught out. I do the A40 from Gerrards Cross into London daily, so have to deal with ever reducing speedlimits!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 17:41
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 00:45) *
The issue is it is a 40 that has been reduced to a 30 and there are only small repeaters with no big sign signifying the change from 40 to 30, that's where the confusion is.

Where does the 40 limit start?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 21:09
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 18:41) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 00:45) *
The issue is it is a 40 that has been reduced to a 30 and there are only small repeaters with no big sign signifying the change from 40 to 30, that's where the confusion is.

Where does the 40 limit start?


It is 40 all the way from Northolt Eastbound to Shepherds Bush overpass when it goes down to 30, a good 15-20 minute drive at 44 MPH and intervening traffic lights. It used to be 40 until Baker Street, but they removed it as mentioned.

This is where it starts being 40.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5451371,-0....3312!8i6656

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 - 21:12
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 17 Sep 2020 - 13:21
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



So where is the last 40 mph repeater prior to the 30 section?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Thu, 17 Sep 2020 - 21:30
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 17 Sep 2020 - 14:21) *
So where is the last 40 mph repeater prior to the 30 section?



https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5145537,-0....6384!8i8192

here.

it may have changed since the image in july 2019 as back then it was 40 everywhere with no 30's, but I will check again tomorrow and let you know if it is different. if i dont say anything it means this is the last one.

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 - 21:30
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 18 Sep 2020 - 13:28
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 19,806
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



I suspect you'll find it's gone and the whole stretch is now subject to the default 30 mph limit. If on the other hand the 40 limit has no defined ending, that is really bad and is grounds for a complaint.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
speedfighter23
post Sat, 19 Sep 2020 - 13:05
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 291
Joined: 29 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,999



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 18 Sep 2020 - 14:28) *
I suspect you'll find it's gone and the whole stretch is now subject to the default 30 mph limit. If on the other hand the 40 limit has no defined ending, that is really bad and is grounds for a complaint.


No it is still 40 there, it only becomes 30 when you start the uphill climb into the overpass.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5149753,-0....6384!8i8192

On nice I found it, you see the blank repeater there?

Well it says 30 there now, and that is the first indication there that the speed limit is 30 now not 40. Is that repeater big enough as a terminal speed limit change sign?

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Sat, 19 Sep 2020 - 13:06
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 28th September 2020 - 22:28
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.