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NIP, 67 MPH in 50
speederbymistake
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:16
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Hi guys,

I was speeding 67MPH on a 50 on the motorway. I was a bit careless and didn't really notice the 50 sign as I still thought the limit was 70 hence why I was being careful at 67.

The car is leased on my mum's name but I was the insured driver driving it.

Offence happened on the 10th November
The leasing company sent us a letter 5 days ago ie on 15th December that they have received a NIP from the police and have told them to send it to the person registered (ie my mum). They sent us the brief details of the offence which says excess speed 67-50 and said the police will directly send us a notice. I still haven't heard anything from the police.

I am wondering what sort of fine I am looking at?
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post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:16
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Jlc
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:30
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It will be fixed penalty offer of 3 points £100.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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TMC Towcester
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:59
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Officially - you're not (yet) looking at anything.

She'll receive the NIP and has to return it naming you, then you'll get the FPN offer which from what you've said you'd be wise to accept. Don't forget to let your (?) insurer know.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 16:19
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QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:16) *
The leasing company sent us a letter 5 days ago ie on 15th December that they have received a NIP from the police and have told them to send it to the person registered (ie my mum)

I’m pretty sure they didn’t say that at all.
The recipient is required (by law) to inform the police who was driving or keeping the vehicle (under such information they can give that would help to identify the driver).
The lease company (or their finance company) are the registered keeper, so your Mum isn’t ‘registered’, she’ll just be named as the keeper.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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speederbymistake
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 16:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 16:19) *
QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 15:16) *
The leasing company sent us a letter 5 days ago ie on 15th December that they have received a NIP from the police and have told them to send it to the person registered (ie my mum)

I’m pretty sure they didn’t say that at all.
The recipient is required (by law) to inform the police who was driving or keeping the vehicle (under such information they can give that would help to identify the driver).
The lease company (or their finance company) are the registered keeper, so your Mum isn’t ‘registered’, she’ll just be named as the keeper.


Sorry I should have been clear.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle, Honda Contract Hire is
legally obliged to give the authority that issued the notice details of
who we lease the vehicle to. We have written to them with the details
and have transferred the liability for this offence to the address
below:

Mums address and name


This is what I got. The offence was Last month and we only got this last week 35 days later. So I am assuming whenever my mum gets the letter she will name me

This post has been edited by speederbymistake: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 16:54
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Gerfc1
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 17:29
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The NIP have to be sent to the registered keeper - in this case it is to the leasing company.


There is no time limit to send the NIP after that.

If your mum receive the NIP she would have to fill in and sign it namely you and then send it back. Then a new NIP is to be sent to you.

Then you send in the fill in and sign it and return it.

Then the police can then issue a FPN to you.

It is the procedure which is no time limit apart from that first NIP have to be arrived with the registered keeper within 14 days.

In the meantime there is a 6 month limit to start the criminal proceeding.
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NewJudge
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:29
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QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 17:29) *
The NIP have to be sent to the registered keeper - in this case it is to the leasing company.


There is no time limit to send the NIP after that.

If your mum receive the NIP she would have to fill in and sign it namely you and then send it back. Then a new NIP is to be sent to you.

Then you send in the fill in and sign it and return it.

Then the police can then issue a FPN to you.

It is the procedure which is no time limit apart from that first NIP have to be arrived with the registered keeper within 14 days.

In the meantime there is a 6 month limit to start the criminal proceeding.

Just on a point of pedantry: it is not the NIP that requires a response. It is the accompanying "Section 172" request asking for the driver's details. In fact the first NIP is the only one required at all by law; others are usually provided because they are produced by the same system used to produce the S172 request (and both are often printed on the same sheet of paper). Moving on, when the driver is finally identified he or she will receive a Conditional Officer of a Fixed Penalty, not a Fixed Penalty Notice (the two are different).

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:31
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speederbymistake
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:45
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QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 17:29) *
The NIP have to be sent to the registered keeper - in this case it is to the leasing company.


There is no time limit to send the NIP after that.

If your mum receive the NIP she would have to fill in and sign it namely you and then send it back. Then a new NIP is to be sent to you.

Then you send in the fill in and sign it and return it.

Then the police can then issue a FPN to you.

It is the procedure which is no time limit apart from that first NIP have to be arrived with the registered keeper within 14 days.

In the meantime there is a 6 month limit to start the criminal proceeding.


Thanks for your reply mate. The registered keeper in this case is Honda as we have established. From what i know the notice arrived to them 20 odd days after the offence had occurred.

This post has been edited by speederbymistake: Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:48
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The Rookie
post Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:57
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Do you KNOW they are the registered keeper of believe they are?

For some lease cars the finance company behind the scenes are the RK.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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speederbymistake
post Fri, 25 Dec 2020 - 22:20
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:57) *
Do you KNOW they are the registered keeper of believe they are?

For some lease cars the finance company behind the scenes are the RK.

Hi mate, in the letter to us Honda said they are the registered keeper.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 26 Dec 2020 - 12:08
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In which case ask Honda if they are prepared to swear to these facts as it gives a defence to the charge.

Google the David Beckham and Bentley case.

If the facts aren’t as you say though it could be an expensive trip to court.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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NewJudge
post Sat, 26 Dec 2020 - 14:47
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I would firstly make absolutely sure that Honda are indeed the Registered Keepers of the car. You can find lots of cases on here where posters are "absolutely certain" that so-and-so is the RK and they got a NIP after three or four weeks. When they make further enquiries it often turns out that so-and-so is not the Registered Keeper after all. Somebody else is and they received the first NIP in time. Late NIPs are very rare (even in the Covid times). I would ask Honda to send you a copy of the V5C if they would be so kind and a copy of what they say is the first NIP would help as well.

The problem you face is that in order to defend the matter on the basis of a late NIP you will have to decline the offer of a Fixed Penalty (which will almost certainly be made) and have the case heard in court. Even if you eventually plead guilty (because, say, you established that the first NIP was received in time) the offer will no longer be available to you. Being sentenced in court will see you pay a fine of 66% of a week's net income, a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £34), £85 costs and four points. If you take home £500 a week it will cost you near enough a week's income in total instead of a hundred quid.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sat, 26 Dec 2020 - 14:49
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BertB
post Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 11:01
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QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Fri, 25 Dec 2020 - 23:20) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 21 Dec 2020 - 18:57) *
Do you KNOW they are the registered keeper of believe they are?

For some lease cars the finance company behind the scenes are the RK.

Hi mate, in the letter to us Honda said they are the registered keeper.


As others have said, just be wary of that. Leasing is sometimes subbed out by direct car manuacturers despite the name. Honda may well be the registered keeper, but Bloggs Vehicle Leasing acting as Honda Leasing Co. will possibly not be. However, under the guise of being 'Honda' they will be saying that they are the registered keeper.

I had something similar years ago with (I think) Mazda on a company car.

Edit: Sorry rather than guess I thought I would look it up.

QUOTE
Contract Hire provided by Arval UK Limited trading as Honda Contract Hire


Arval UK are a BNP Paribas company. There is a good chance cars are financed by Honda UK, or BNP. Either way, I'm 80/20 leaning towards Arval or 'Honda Contract Leasing' not being the RK.

This post has been edited by BertB: Tue, 29 Dec 2020 - 11:09
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speederbymistake
post Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:47
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Hi guys,

So my mum finally got the letter today, saying they are considering prosecution for 67 in a 50 bla bla. she has sent back the letter identifying me as the driver. so now I am waiting for it to come to me and hope its a 3 pointer and nothing more.

Berk, Judge and Rookie, cheers for your replies, you guys make perfect sense.
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Gerfc1
post Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:53
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QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:47) *
Hi guys,

So my mum finally got the letter today, saying they are considering prosecution for 67 in a 50 bla bla. she has sent back the letter identifying me as the driver. so now I am waiting for it to come to me and hope its a 3 pointer and nothing more.

Berk, Judge and Rookie, cheers for your replies, you guys make perfect sense.


Unless you are on 9 penalty points or more, you will get a fixed penalty of £100 penalty and 3 penalty points, I am 99% sure of that.
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speederbymistake
post Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 23:09
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QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:53) *
QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:47) *
Hi guys,

So my mum finally got the letter today, saying they are considering prosecution for 67 in a 50 bla bla. she has sent back the letter identifying me as the driver. so now I am waiting for it to come to me and hope its a 3 pointer and nothing more.

Berk, Judge and Rookie, cheers for your replies, you guys make perfect sense.


Unless you are on 9 penalty points or more, you will get a fixed penalty of £100 penalty and 3 penalty points, I am 99% sure of that.


Haha yeah mate, my license has been clean. this was my first time where I made a stupid mistake. And hopefully the last.
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TMC Towcester
post Fri, 22 Jan 2021 - 07:55
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QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 23:09) *
QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:53) *
QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:47) *
Hi guys,

So my mum finally got the letter today, saying they are considering prosecution for 67 in a 50 bla bla. she has sent back the letter identifying me as the driver. so now I am waiting for it to come to me and hope its a 3 pointer and nothing more.

Berk, Judge and Rookie, cheers for your replies, you guys make perfect sense.


Unless you are on 9 penalty points or more, you will get a fixed penalty of £100 penalty and 3 penalty points, I am 99% sure of that.


Haha yeah mate, my license has been clean. this was my first time where I made a stupid mistake. And hopefully the last.


I'm guessing you're fairly young, so you'll get more at some point! Try not to get too many in short succession! In 40 years I've had about 6 but usually at least 6+ years apart!!

p.s Check your insurance whether you need to notify them! No insurance is a whole world of pain!!
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speederbymistake
post Sat, 23 Jan 2021 - 17:36
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Fri, 22 Jan 2021 - 07:55) *
QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 23:09) *
QUOTE (Gerfc1 @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:53) *
QUOTE (speederbymistake @ Thu, 21 Jan 2021 - 22:47) *
Hi guys,

So my mum finally got the letter today, saying they are considering prosecution for 67 in a 50 bla bla. she has sent back the letter identifying me as the driver. so now I am waiting for it to come to me and hope its a 3 pointer and nothing more.

Berk, Judge and Rookie, cheers for your replies, you guys make perfect sense.


Unless you are on 9 penalty points or more, you will get a fixed penalty of £100 penalty and 3 penalty points, I am 99% sure of that.


Haha yeah mate, my license has been clean. this was my first time where I made a stupid mistake. And hopefully the last.


I'm guessing you're fairly young, so you'll get more at some point! Try not to get too many in short succession! In 40 years I've had about 6 but usually at least 6+ years apart!!

p.s Check your insurance whether you need to notify them! No insurance is a whole world of pain!!


I am in my mid 30s so not that young biggrin.gif I am very careful now at any road. My work involves a lot of driving so can't afford to mess up
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