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Parking ticket in Camden, I tried all i could but still got the ticket...
Pianolegs
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:32
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Parked at 8.30pm to see a gig at 9pm. Parking payment was via RinGo, so I tried downloading the app as I suspected phoning them could be an expensive call.

This took a while, then I spent another 15 minutes trying to register via the app and pay for the parking, unsuccessfully. Lots of waiting while the app tried to log me only to be told I’d already registered and I didn’t know my password - tried all my usual ones but nothing worked. So I selected “forgotten my password” and waited for a text to make a new one - several attempts in between “you can’t request another password yet, try again in 2 minutes” so while waiting I went into the venue at what must have been 8.50 or so (only 15 yards away from the car) to get stamped in. Then I came out and gave up trying and phoned the number risking whatever call costs there might be at 8.58pm, and assumed all would be ok. (My phone records show this call).

When I came out after the concert I found I’d been given a ticket at 8.53 while I’d gone inside for a couple of minutes to check in.

I challenged the ticket the following day on the Camden website, explaining the above but I had an email today refusing my request as technically I was parked without payment at 8.53.

I consider that I made considerable and reasonable efforts to pay and without knowing I had a ticket I proceeded to pay a few minutes later as I had no intention of parking without paying.

So, do I have any recourse or am I stuck with paying the £40 fine (they’ve “kindly” reset the 7 day grace period before it rises to £80 to start again from today). But the email states that if I contest it now the time it will take will be longer than the 7 days and I will be liable to pay the £80 regardless.

Any wisdom gratefully received. Thanks.

This post has been edited by Pianolegs: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:34
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post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:32
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Incandescent
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:46
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QUOTE
so I tried downloading the app as I suspected phoning them could be an expensive call.

Yet it's turned out far more expensive !! It all goes wrong from this point onwards and you don't seem to have been very well prepared, I have to say.. Maybe be a bit less parsimonious in future !

First off, post up the PCN so we can see if there are any fatal errors of content in it. Blank out PCN Number and car details. Leave everything else in..
In your favour if you decide to take it all the way to adjudication, is the simple rule that time to pay for a ticket after parking-up is allowed, (many successful appeals on this one). It seems to me that you can make a good case for the PCN to be cancelled, but so can the council make a good case for it not to be. For me, I'd accept I arrived totally unprepared, and must suffer the consequences, (a £65 penalty). Others may disagree so wait a bit but don't risk the discount waiting. However until we see the PCN final advice cannot be given, so get your skates on and post it.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 21:55
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The automated call to Ringgo is on an 020 local rate number. You could have paid by text too.

To use the app you really had to set it up before you set out - then it's a breeze to use (I use it a lot - all you have to remember is the confirmation code on your debit/credit card).

Regarding the contravention, you've been fortunate in that you have a lower level penalty (£40 not £65 at discount) presumably because it was in a P&D bay only.

If your session started shortly after the PCN time I would certainly look at this - post PCN, your challenge and their rejection.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:02
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DancingDad
post Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 22:18
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There is a convention that time is allowed to effect payment.
But this is what is needed and includes no leeway even for things like going for change to pay.
I suspect that if you told them that you went in to get your entry stamp, this will be taken as a delay that was not needed.
And likely to be upheld by an adjudicator.
Had you still been by vehicle struggling with Ringo it would be far easier to argue that you were effecting payment and far more chance of winning.
Even if you had left vehicle, less chance but still a chance.
But admitting that you gave up and went in... uhmmmmm.

I think we need some technical arguments, PCN, all correspondence and location please.
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Pianolegs
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 01:33
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Thanks for the advice. I didn’t realise I was being parsimonious, I just felt I’d made a reasonable effort and paid as soon as I could, minutes later.

I’m in London until tomorrow night and the PCN is at home in my desk. I’ll post it up here when I get back, but I admit I was unprepared. It was made worse by the fact I’d already registered a long time ago and lost my password (at least is wasn’t stored in my phone any more for some reason) and they failed many times to send me a text code to let me reset the password.

I suspect my best course of action will be to just pay the £40 and move on.
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 17:03
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QUOTE (Pianolegs @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 02:33) *
I suspect my best course of action will be to just pay the £40 and move on.

Post the PCN anyway, you never know there might be a flaw in the small print that can save the day.


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Pianolegs
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 10:19
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Thanks. Well, here's the NIP, in case there's anything there.. but it looks pretty standard I suspect.



This post has been edited by Pianolegs: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 17:45
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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 21:14
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Show us the back please


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Pianolegs
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 10:08
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Here's the back - any ideas from this?
Thanks

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cp8759
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 18:21
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The PCN is compliant, paying the discount might be your best option.


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Pianolegs
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 19:08
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 19:21) *
The PCN is compliant, paying the discount might be your best option.

Understood, thanks. I figured that may be my best option.

Thanks for the help here, much appreciated.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 19:16
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You haven't posted your challenge or their rejection.
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Pianolegs
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 19:35
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Here they are.

Interestingly, I just tried to pay the £40 anyway, and the Camden site kicked me off just as I got to the end of the payment process (page timed out...)
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cp8759
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 20:06
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The rejection shows they considered your representations so the advice from me at least remains to pay at the discount while you can.
I would recommend paying by phone if the online system isn't working.


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Pianolegs
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 21:06
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 21:06) *
The rejection shows they considered your representations so the advice from me at least remains to pay at the discount while you can.
I would recommend paying by phone if the online system isn't working.

Thanks. That’s rather what I thought but it’s good to confirm it’s the best course of action.
Will do.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 21:08
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This is annoying as some councils would have used discretion but I can't see them changing their mind.
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Pianolegs
post Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 21:44
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 22 Jul 2018 - 22:08) *
This is annoying as some councils would have used discretion but I can't see them changing their mind.

Agreed. It does leave me with a somewhat tarnished view of Camden unfortunately, and though I admit I should have been better prepared, I genuinely did try to pay the parking fee.

It’s difficult to avoid the thought that the warden may have been watching me and issued the ticket just as I went inside briefly. The timing does suggest that - I have my phone records and the 3 minutes of the “offence” are just while I was inside for about 5-6 minutes..
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