Havering 'Parked in loading bay' PCN Options

[CRS123]

Hello everybody,

I received a parking ticket in April regarding parking in a loading bay. I was unloading three heavy parcels to the nearby newsagents (there were no regular parking spots available).

The ticket I received was exactly at the same time I was dropping the parcels (I have a receipt for dropping the parcels)

I came back to my car the same time of the ticket warden putting it on my windscreen and he said to just appeal it, if he had seen I was unloading then I would have not been given a ticket.

I sent in an informal appeal with evidence of the receipt but the council refused it. I did some more research and found out that the code used on the PCN was incorrect so I sent another informal appeal and I received another standard letter saying to wait for the NTO as they can not discuss it any further.

I have dash cam footage showing my arrival and departure time, although I was only in the bay for three to four minutes, I sat in my car for 5-10 minutes researching if I was able to use a loading bay (but arriving and departing within the 20 min limit), I haven't come across anything on the internet stating that it is solely for commercial purposes?

I have attached a photo of all correspondents (sorry my scanner is not working so I tried to take a picture of them).

In regard to the incorrect code used, the traffic warden entered:

20 Parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line

However, the loading bay is not marked by a yellow line so I am right in thinking that the correct offence should have been:

25 Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading

Any advice for the official appeal? I would like to appeal on both grounds of 1, the offence did not occur (I was not parked, but unloading) and 2, the offence code used on the PCN is incorrect

Please let me know if I can provide anymore information

Thanks in advance!

This post has been edited by CRS123: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 - 13:11

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

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[Neil B]

Show us the council pics.

Were you in front of the bed shop?

[CRS123]

Show us the council pics.

Were you in front of the bed shop?

Hello I have run out of attachment space so I have attached links to the photos, these are the four photos that the council have. Yes in front of the bed shop

https://imgur.com/lnHW0Wl

https://imgur.com/gmYltPM

https://imgur.com/k1ceE94

https://imgur.com/LBsnYhF

[Neil B]

Not just a mistake by the CEO but the muppet responding hasn't bothered to look.

Show us your challenge.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5501566,0.1...6384!8i8192

[cp8759]

Well you should obviously challenge this as you can't lose. There is no yellow line, so even if you hadn't been loading, the contravention alleged on the PCN did not occur.

On top of this, the contravention wording is wrong anyway: The London Councils list of contravention codes at https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/download/file/fid/24427 confirms Code 20 should read "Parked in a part of a parking place marked by a yellow line where waiting is prohibited", the reference to a "Loading Gap" was removed on 1 April 2011.

Sounds like Havering is some 8 years behind the curve.

[CRS123]

Hello, sorry my late response. I have now enabled email notifications of replies!

So I was thinking of appealing on the grounds like this:

________________________________________________________________________________
______

Dear Havering Council,

I appeal this PCN on the grounds that this offence did not occur for two reasons.

Firstly, I deny that I was parked in this loading bay. I was using the loading bay to the prescribed restrictions, I was unloading three heavy parcels to the nearby shop. I arrived and left within the 20 minute limit. I have attached evidence of the receipt showing that I sent three parcels at the exact time the PCN was issued (10.46). I have attached screenshots of the dash cam footage of arriving and departing. I arrived back at my car when the CEO was attaching the PCN to my windscreen and he said he did not see me unloading and if he had done then no ticket would have been issued, he told me to appeal.

Secondly, the location in question is not marked by a yellow line. This is an error on the behalf of the CEO, which renders this ticket invalid.

The code used on this ticket was:

20 Parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line

However, the loading bay does not have a yellow line, as also shown in the photographs taken by the CEO.

The correct code should have been:

25 Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading

Kind regards

________________________________________________________________________________
______

Any advice of what to add or remove? I am hoping they do not reject it and I have to send an appeal to London Tribunals because it is a lot of time wasted for everybody!

Just another question, if I select to attend the hearing in person.. Are the council required to send a representative? (Just for future reference)

Thanks in advance!

[PASTMYBEST]

Hello, sorry my late response. I have now enabled email notifications of replies!

So I was thinking of appealing on the grounds like this:

________________________________________________________________________________
______

Dear Havering Council,

I appeal this PCN on the grounds that this offence did not occur for two reasons.

Firstly, I deny that I was parked in this loading bay. I was using the loading bay to the prescribed restrictions, I was unloading three heavy parcels to the nearby shop. I arrived and left within the 20 minute limit. I have attached evidence of the receipt showing that I sent three parcels at the exact time the PCN was issued (10.46). I have attached screenshots of the dash cam footage of arriving and departing. I arrived back at my car when the CEO was attaching the PCN to my windscreen and he said he did not see me unloading and if he had done then no ticket would have been issued, he told me to appeal.

Secondly, the location in question is not marked by a yellow line. This is an error on the behalf of the CEO, which renders this ticket invalid.

The code used on this ticket was:

20 Parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line

However, the loading bay does not have a yellow line, as also shown in the photographs taken by the CEO.

The correct code should have been:

25 Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading

Kind regards

________________________________________________________________________________
______

Any advice of what to add or remove? I am hoping they do not reject it and I have to send an appeal to London Tribunals because it is a lot of time wasted for everybody!

Just another question, if I select to attend the hearing in person.. Are the council required to send a representative? (Just for future reference)

Thanks in advance!

don't tell them what the correct code should be, it gives them an opportunity to just say ah but you were in a loading bay

[hcandersen]

Not my style.

I refer the authority to their evidence in the form of 4 photos taken by the CEO, see enclosed.

As you will see, I was parked wholly within a parking place reserved to any vehicle for the purpose of time-limited loading between the specified hours.

There is no yellow line in the CEO's photos for the very reason that there is no yellow line at the location.

The alleged contravention relates to being parked where waiting is prohibited - which would need the presence of a single yellow line - but as the council's evidence shows there is no yellow line.

The contravention is therefore not supported by the evidence and the PCN must be cancelled.

I would add further that the evidence is not new but was in the authority's possession when officer(s) considered my challenges. It therefore beggars belief that what is strikingly obvious should not have been noticed earlier i.e. the authority are required to cancel the PCN if any of the statutory grounds is applicable, even if this is only evident to the authority and not the author of any challenge.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 15:21

[CRS123]

Thanks for your feedback. So how does this sound:

_________________________________________

Dear Havering Council,

I am contacting you today regarding the PCN: XXXXXXXXX.

The PCN was issued for: 20, Parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line. I would like to refer back to my informal challenge, of which I sent two, stating my reasonings for appealing. I would like to refer to the four photographs used as evidence for this PCN, taken by your CEO.

I dispute that the vehicle was parked in the parking place reserved to any vehicle for the purposes of time-limited loading. The parking place was being used to the prescribed restrictions, unloading three heavy parcels to the nearby shop. I arrived and left within the 20 minute limit. I have attached evidence of the receipt showing that I sent three parcels at the exact time the PCN was issued (10.46). I have attached screenshots of the dash cam footage of arriving and departing. I arrived back at my car when the CEO was attaching the PCN to my windscreen and he said he did not see me unloading and if he had done then no ticket would have been issued, he told me to appeal.

As you will see, my vehicle was parked wholly within a parking place reserved to any vehicle for the purposes of time-limited loading between the hour prescribed. There is no yellow line in the CEO’s photographs for the very reason that there is no yellow line at the location in question. The alleged contravention relates to being parked where waiting is prohibited - which would require the presence of a single yellow line - but as the CEO’s evidence shows, there is no yellow line. The contravention can therefore not be supported by the evidence provided and the PCN must be cancelled.

_______________________________________

Should I select that I am appealing..

The alleged contravention did not occur
(because I was actually unloading and not parked)
or

There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority..
(trying to enforce the ticket when the wrong contravention code is used)

They define it as being: "a failure by the enforcement authority to observe any requirement imposed on it by the Traffic Management Act 2004, or the relevant regulations made under that"

This post has been edited by CRS123: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 16:29

[cp8759]

The alleged contravention did not occur.