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Court Claim BWLegal Can anyone advise?, PPC Brittania, help with court defence do i have a case?
Taliessa
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 15:34
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Hi there, I am new here, first post.

County Court Claim by BW Legal on behalf of Brittania.
Driver parked in a very small parking area (no marked parking bays) at 10.00pm on an October evening. Driver has frequented this same parking area for over 30 years freely so had no reason to expect any changes to that. Entrance sign not in driver's line of vision on entering parking area. Signs all over one side of parking area only. Driver parked facing the opposite side of parking area where there is no signage whatsoever.
Parking area serves 9 businesses.
Driver a genuine customer of the Indian restaurant. Driver parked for one hour. Enough time to order and eat a meal then left the parking area. Signs all remain behind the driver. 11.00pm at night when driver left. The parking area has a 20 minute restriction.
Received a NTK in post within 14 days.
Spoke to restaurant manager who apologised profusely, said ignore all contact as Brittania are there illegally. He insists all 9 businesses have proprietary interest and he is currently taking Brittania to court for loss of business. He said loads of local customers have also been caught out having used the car park freely for years.
I did a bit of research online and decided NOT to ignore.
I appealed to Brittania which was rejected.
I then appealed to POPLA with several photographs attached to the PDF appeal document.
POPLA rejected the appeal saying I did not send the photographs. I wrote to them saying the photos were all attached to the original document clearly marked throughout the appeal. They said their decision was final.
Found newspaper article from local newspaper (one month after driver parked outside Indian restaurant) where 7 of the 9 businesses are doing all they can to remove Brittania from the parking area. One business (launderette) is owned by someone who claims to be the landowner. Redacted landower agreement was produced by Brittania during POPLA appeal.
Newspaper article says 'a couple' of launderette users (elderly customers at launderette) have given their number plate in and have been allowed to stay longer than 20 minutes. However it states in launderette that EVERY customer genuinely using the launderette can just write their number plate down in a book and they can stay beyone the 20 minutes.

The Indian restaurant manager quoted in newspaper article addressing Brittania parking said
“We do not understand how you
are involved in managing our car
park because this car park
belongs to all the shop keepers
and for our customers’ use and
nobody has a right to make any
decision without all the shop-
keepers’ consent.”

So my defence is that driver was a genuine customer, honestly did not see non-illuminated and inadequately placed signs. BW Legal have not made it clear regarding driver or keeper liability. They have added an extra £60 to the original charge of £100 yet I understand they cannot do this if they are pursuing the keeper.
Also that despite their producing a redacted copy of landowner agreement there is still some confusion regarding landowner authority and whether genuine customers of the 9 businesses should all be treated equally at being able to use the parking area beyond the 20 minute restriction. Is it discrimination to be able to use the launderette as long as you please but none of the other 8 businesses?

My question is do I have a case here? Honest, law abiding road user but driver did not think to look for signage in a small parking area that driver has used regularly for 30 plus years with no restriction.

Someone pointed out this clause in the BPA Code of Practice

18.10 Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you must make these terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. Best practice would be the installation of additional/temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the previous terms become aware of the new ones.

A friend told me to "Pay up you will never win as the court is always biased in favour of the PPC"


Do I really have a case? If I do where should I start with compiling defence? I have til the end of the month to get it all together. Court claim has been acknowledged.

Any help much appreciated thankyou
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post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 15:34
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Jlc
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 15:58
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QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
“We do not understand how you are involved in managing our car park because this car park belongs to all the shop keepers and for our customers’ use and
nobody has a right to make any decision without all the shop-keepers’ consent.”

Well the Indian restaurant are annoyed but this statement is unlikely to be true unless they actually have some legal interest on the land.

QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
So my defence is that driver was a genuine customer, honestly did not see non-illuminated and inadequately placed signs. BW Legal have not made it clear regarding driver or keeper liability. They have added an extra £60 to the original charge of £100 yet I understand they cannot do this if they are pursuing the keeper.

Always challenge the £60.

QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
Also that despite their producing a redacted copy of landowner agreement there is still some confusion regarding landowner authority and whether genuine customers of the 9 businesses should all be treated equally at being able to use the parking area beyond the 20 minute restriction. Is it discrimination to be able to use the launderette as long as you please but none of the other 8 businesses?

You will need to do your homework and follow the chain of authority. You may have to start with the land registry.

QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
My question is do I have a case here? Honest, law abiding road user but driver did not think to look for signage in a small parking area that driver has used regularly for 30 plus years with no restriction.

Not thinking to look isn't a factor. It's whether there was sufficient signage that was available, regardless of whether it was actually read or not. Not being illuminated is a factor.

QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
A friend told me to "Pay up you will never win as the court is always biased in favour of the PPC"

That's a bit defeatist but some outcomes may feel that way.

QUOTE (Taliessa @ Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 16:34) *
Do I really have a case? If I do where should I start with compiling defence? I have til the end of the month to get it all together. Court claim has been acknowledged.

The risks in defending are relatively low. If you have the time and inclination then I wouldn't throw the towel in.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Taliessa
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 19:47
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Thankyou so much for your reply!

"Not thinking to look isn't a factor. It's whether there was sufficient signage that was available, regardless of whether it was actually read or not. Not being illuminated is a factor."

Signage at entrance faces directly outwards towards the building opposite. It is slightly twisted so faces away from any driver turning right on entering the car park. All that can be seen is a silver pole by the bushes. In darkness this is not seen.

Then there are four quite high reasonably clear signs (in daylight) that are not illuminated. They do have very small print on the bottom and because the signs are so high even stood right next to the sign you would not be able to read that bit. Brittania said these signs were coated in a reflective paint during the POPLA appeal. There is no evidence of this at all but also none of the signs are at headlight level. The four signs are all over one side of the parking area.

Over the other side is a long, metal railing running in front of all the businesses in the parade. If you park in front of these railings then all the signs are behind you. These signs may be spotted in the rear view mirror or when you get out of the car during the hours of daylight but they cannot be seen in winter at 10.00pm at night when it is so dark. Street lights are over the other side of the car park and do not shine upon the car park.

During the POPLA appeal, Brittania produced photographs taken in the evening during summer (June) the sky was blue and there was a lot of light in the car park area.
I sent in photos of the car park in winter (November) when the sky was pitch black in the evening with no light in the parking area.
POPLA took Brittania's photographs as evidence and told me that I had not sent them any photos (when I had)

Can you direct me to any templates of a put together defence based on lack of signage or do you have any tips as to how I should start compiling the defence? Is the defence that goes on the court form just a bullet point list with a more detailed defence (such as witness statement or video/photographs) to be presented in court?


Many thanks!

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Taliessa
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 12:53
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[/quote]
The risks in defending are relatively low. If you have the time and inclination then I wouldn't throw the towel in.
[/quote]

How do I go about compiling a defence? Feeling quite lost here and don't know where to start. Do I just address each point in the court claim?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 11:50
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1) FIRST thing you do is ACKNOWLWEDGE the claim. If you have not done so already, you do this TODAY
Go ONLINE to the MCOL site. FULL guide to this is at the MSE forum -> Newbies thread -> Post 2. Do this today. Confirm when you have done so

2) Tell us your ISSUE DATE, as once you adcknowledge you get 33 days from this date to get the defence to the court

3) OF course youre lost. Everyone is, first time round! What you have to do is - read court threads. DO obvious searches, by "post", and pick late 2018 / 2019 cases ONLY. Nothing earlier.

4) You also go further onto the MSE forum newbies thread, and it takes you through *example*, *concise* defences.

The first principle is you accept, deny or say why you cant do either every point they raise.
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