Penalty Charge Notice Options

[turkontour7]

Hi all

I'm looking for some advice on a recent PCN received. I have received a penalty charge 01, Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

I was parked on double yellow lines, with a valid blue badge visible. I was well within my allocated time when the ticket was issued. I was under the impression that I was entitled to park
on this street, as I have used it on several occasions without receiving a penalty notice. Below is a link of where I was parked, that is, the yellow lines.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Millbro...33;4d-3.9382518

I have found the following, but not sure if valid / applicable?:

Further details of contravention code 01
Contravention code 01 is summarised as parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (non-goods vehicles).
Jump to table of contents
Non goods vehicles
Contravention code 01 shall be used for non-goods vehicles (cars, motorbikes, and so on) seen to be parked in contravention on double or single yellow lines.
A five-minute observation period will be applied to non-goods vehicles.
Single yellow lines
Single yellow lines must be accompanied by a time plate which indicates the hours during which the restriction applies.  
A time plate is not required for single yellow lines within a controlled parking zone (on-street pay and display area).
Double yellow lines
Double yellow lines apply “at any time” and do not require a time plate.
Is loading/unloading permitted?  Yes
Are Blue Badge holders exempt?  Yes, for up to three hours
Exemptions to enforcement
Vehicles are not permitted to park on yellow lines during the prescribed hours with the following exemptions:
alighting
Blue Badge - Blue Badge holders may park for up to three hours on double or single yellow lines if correctly displaying a valid Blue Badge
council/government department in pursuance of statutory duties
emergency services (fire, police, ambulance, customs)
road maintenance
postal
statutory undertaking (NIE Networks, Water, BT, and so on)
loading/ unloading

If the above is correct, then surely I am covered by the fact that I was displaying a valid blue badge?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!

[Advertisement]

[turkontour7]

Many thanks

I shall appeal accordingly and update you with the outcome......

Cheers

[PASTMYBEST]

Shouldn't that be in the issued ticket? For example- causing an obstruction, parking by a junction etc?

Yes but that is a police matter the council have no power to enforce that

[turkontour7]

Hi

I have lost my appeal as per attached Its all to do with parking
to close to a junction
They state this is stipulated on ticket but I disagree?
Am I now stuffed or can I further challenge?
Thanks

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

[DancingDad]

You have not lost an appeal, simply an informal challenge.
What you have gained is the knowledge why they served the PCN and that they rely purely on guidance.
The next stage is a formal challenge and there we can take them to task on this.
It matters not if the CEo noted this on the PCN, it is still not valid.
And TBH would need to be in the Welsh bits cos I can't see it in the English

You cannot lose this one.
But will need to stick with it.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 - 23:01

[turkontour7]

Really?
I'm intrigued at what you have said.
How on earth do I take this on further?

[cp8759]

Read this in full: https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/t...-parking-wales/

At the moment you've just sent an informal challenge, you now need to wait for the Notice to Owner.

[DancingDad]

Really?
I'm intrigued at what you have said.
How on earth do I take this on further?

The next stage is a Notice to Owner.
That provides another chance to challenge, what is known as a formal challenge.
Now we know what they served the PCN for, we can stuff them.
They are not the first council to try this on, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
We know the legislation, the rules that must be obeyed.
And that guidance is not legislation, simply guidance.
If council reject that, you get another chance, an appeal to an independent adjudicator.
They do know the law and will apply it.
Something that councils should do but are often untrained muppets and always have a financial interest in persuading people to pay.
Worst case if you lose at adjudication, £70. But that is not going to happen.

We suspected it before but it would not have been right to challenge with all guns blazing, they may have come back with an issue about display of the badge or whatever.
Now we can prepare the broadside.

[cp8759]

I would go further, if the council don't cancel at the formal reps stage, I think you would be well within your right to claim costs.

[DancingDad]

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=117478

I link to the above as it is a similar case within England.
Principles discussed are all the same.
There is specific Welsh legislation that refers where you are so don't get carried away with lifting any letter from that link.

Here is the Welsh legislation
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2000/178...gulation/8/made
The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (Wales) Regulations 2000
Section 8 applies on yellow lines/waiting restrictions.
There is no caveat "except within 10m of a corner" or anything similar.

They are enforcing on something which they cannot, their own traffic Order cannot allow then to unless they are ignoring the legislation that governs traffic orders in Wales.
And they cannot enforce on guidance only the law.

TBH, the police can, unnecessary obstruction or even dangerous parking (which is worth 3 points) but within the council's remit, the council can do diddly squat.

[PASTMYBEST]

Who is it that sent the rejection? the council or a contractor

[turkontour7]

The reply is from the Council, Swansea Council

[DancingDad]

The reply is from the Council, Swansea Council

Hmmm, not a contractor in the loop then.

All the council's own work not a contractor getting inventive.


I'm going thought their policies and TROs at present...back later, these muppets must be named and shamed.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 12:20

[turkontour7]

k - I'm ready to take this on
What happens next?

[cp8759]

k - I'm ready to take this on
What happens next?

See https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/t...-parking-wales/ for all the steps in the process.

[PASTMYBEST]

k - I'm ready to take this on
What happens next?

We nail their nuts to a fence.


it needs to be two pronged attack, first to the tribunal to have the PCN cancelled and second via the council complaints procedure to get the policy changed because it is ultra vires. Member HCA is particularly good at this having an intimate knowledge of the workings of local government

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 23:50

[DancingDad]

k - I'm ready to take this on
What happens next?

Could you confirm what you sent to them as a challenge?
The wording I suggested or otherwise.

A copy would be good.

[DancingDad]

I suggest that a warning shot ought to be fired to set them up for the Notice to Owner.
Add your details, leave words as they are.
Can ignore the hugs and kisses

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ?????
Your letter dated ???

Many thanks for your letter and explanation why the PCN was served and why you intend to continue enforcement.
So I can consider further options completely, would you confirm what legislation, Statutory Instrument, Regulations, Traffic Regulation Order or otherwise, does the guidance within the Blue Badge booklet and upon which you rely derive from.

You may need to seek advice from your legal team on this matter, who will be aware, as the writer of the letter is obviously not, that guidance does not provide the required legislative authority for you or any other enforcement authority to serve a PCN let alone continue enforcement. Only appropriate legislation provides that authority.

I suggest that the answer should have regard to the relevant Traffic Regulation Order and how the requirements of The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (Wales) Regulations 2000, regulation 8 are reflected within that.
I also suggest that you must show how whatever legislation you rely upon modifies the requirements of the above regulations with appropriate details such as the full title of the legislation and relevant part quoted verbatim.
The latter as required and imposed on you by The City and County of Swansea, Parking Strategy, Policy and Procedures, a copy of which is available on your parking website.

I look forward to receiving this information and would remind you that failing to do so would strongly support my belief that you are acting without legal or lawful authority in this matter and as such are acting ultra vires, wholly unreasonably and that continued enforcement is vexatious.
Hugs and Kisses

I've also sent an FOI request to find if any written policies on this and hopefully PCNs issued when the 10m rule has been taken to cancel the effect of the BB.

[turkontour7]

Hi
Yes I used the wording you advised as on page 1
of this thread
Are you also advising I send the above wording to them?
Thanks

This post has been edited by turkontour7: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 - 22:51

[DancingDad]

...….Are you also advising I send the above wording to them?
Thanks

Yes please, now

They may well not answer or even send a letter saying they have already answered but it sets them up for when the Notice to Owner arrives.
Thought I'd try a different tack then we have used before.... instead of telling them what the legislation allows, ask them the question.
With a sting in the conclusion that should tell them they have been rumbled.
I wonder why this has appeared in different places, Gloucestershire IIRC, Worthing and now Swansea...common contractors and it is them perpetrating the myth ??