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Community Speed Watch "breaking the law"
southpaw82
post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50
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Pick the bones out of this.


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post Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50
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DancingDad
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 15:44
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QUOTE (BertB)
..........How would you pass a stationary or broken down vehicle if there were solid white lines, would you just wait until they moved off/towed away? The old fella on the bike doing 2mph? The pig being chased down the road by angry wasps?


QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:59) *
Or pass a stop line (ever)? Or enter a bus lane?



QUOTE
unless an exemption applies


Thought I'd just highlight my earlier words for you, BertB and progbloke biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

All the examples except the pig are covered in exemptions
The pig being chased by angry wasps would I suppose be covered by "(d)in order to avoid an accident"
But no exemption if it is running away from you and no danger of an accident biggrin.gif
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samthecat
post Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 16:09
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QUOTE
How would you pass a stationary or broken down vehicle if there were solid white lines, would you just wait until they moved off/towed away? The old fella on the bike doing 2mph? The pig being chased down the road by angry wasps?


Like this?
https://youtu.be/1oCMMF95EU0


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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 00:09
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QUOTE (666 @ Fri, 2 Feb 2018 - 08:50) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 21:50) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 1 Feb 2018 - 17:50) *
Pick the bones out of this.

The best part is "I drove back to ask them what they were doing and whether they had permission", last time I checked there's no need for anyone's permission to sit in a car holding a speed gun providing the car is legally parked and the keys are not in the ignition. Maybe someone should tell him that?


Why no keys?

So no over-zealous copper can come and accuse you of "driving" while not in proper control etc...


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BertB
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 06:24
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 15:44) *
QUOTE (BertB)
..........How would you pass a stationary or broken down vehicle if there were solid white lines, would you just wait until they moved off/towed away? The old fella on the bike doing 2mph? The pig being chased down the road by angry wasps?


QUOTE (666 @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:59) *
Or pass a stop line (ever)? Or enter a bus lane?



QUOTE
unless an exemption applies


Thought I'd just highlight my earlier words for you, BertB and progbloke biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


Fair enough biggrin.gif

Although I did take the unless an exemption applies comment as you casting some doubt on the "sometimes" reply.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 15:44) *
All the examples except the pig are covered in exemptions
The pig being chased by angry wasps would I suppose be covered by "(d)in order to avoid an accident"
But no exemption if it is running away from you and no danger of an accident biggrin.gif


Pigs are unpredictable, like frogs. You have to assume danger in any scenario.

Not that I'm saying Frogs (amphibian) are dangerous, just unpredictable. Although neither believe the Earth is flat
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spanner345
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 08:50
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:25) *
so again do flat earthers believe the earth doesn't rotate? If it doesn't how do all the planets in the nigh sky go round us so fast?

One of the many strange things about the Flat Earthers (well, some of them at least - no doubt there are many competing factions) is that they accept that other planets are spherical, but not the Earth.
As no one has ever been into space to gather the evidence, nobody really knows.


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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10:50
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QUOTE (BertB @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 06:24) *
............Pigs are unpredictable, like frogs. You have to assume danger in any scenario.

Not that I'm saying Frogs (amphibian) are dangerous, just unpredictable. Although neither believe the Earth is flat


Daft as a box of frogs is flat earthers.

Pigs.......
If they are coming towards you, you can assume danger and take avoiding action which may include crossing the central white line.
But if a pig is moving away from you, I cannot see anything that says you can overtake (crossing the line) and believe that the only legal course of action would be to hang back until such a time you can overtake safely.
Happy to be corrected.

And yes, the moment 666 unleased the pedant, I acknowledged that he was correct.
My initial comment was more of a black and white example and did not include the shades of grey that the law allows
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:35
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10:50) *
QUOTE (BertB @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 06:24) *
............Pigs are unpredictable, like frogs. You have to assume danger in any scenario.

Not that I'm saying Frogs (amphibian) are dangerous, just unpredictable. Although neither believe the Earth is flat


Daft as a box of frogs is flat earthers.

Pigs.......
If they are coming towards you, you can assume danger and take avoiding action which may include crossing the central white line.
But if a pig is moving away from you, I cannot see anything that says you can overtake (crossing the line) and believe that the only legal course of action would be to hang back until such a time you can overtake safely.
Happy to be corrected.

And yes, the moment 666 unleased the pedant, I acknowledged that he was correct.
My initial comment was more of a black and white example and did not include the shades of grey that the law allows

Surely if the pig is moving at less than 10 mph, it would be lawful to overtake it providing it was otherwise safe?


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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:53
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:35) *
.........Surely if the pig is moving at less than 10 mph, it would be lawful to overtake it providing it was otherwise safe?


Honestly I can't see if it would be.
The only reference to livestock is a horse being ridden or led at less then 10mph.
A runaway pig is not a horse, nor being led or ridden.
Although there are exemptions that require the speed to be less then 10mph, they are specific, not general.

Could at a stretch be a circumstance beyond driver's control, ie the pig is not in their control
But choosing to cross the white line is.

On a pragmatic note, if I could see no cops and felt it was safe to do so, would be past the thing like a rat up a drainpipe.

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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:57
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Well DancingDad, the problem becomes, if you can't legally overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


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666
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 19:07
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:57) *
Well DancingDad, the problem becomes, if you can't legally overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


Running over a dog or pig is reportable. The others are fair game. [RTA1988 (170(8))].
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nigelbb
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 19:46
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:53) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:35) *
.........Surely if the pig is moving at less than 10 mph, it would be lawful to overtake it providing it was otherwise safe?


Honestly I can't see if it would be.
The only reference to livestock is a horse being ridden or led at less then 10mph.
A runaway pig is not a horse, nor being led or ridden.
Although there are exemptions that require the speed to be less then 10mph, they are specific, not general.

A horse is generally not livestock although a pig is.


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DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:34
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 19:46) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:53) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:35) *
.........Surely if the pig is moving at less than 10 mph, it would be lawful to overtake it providing it was otherwise safe?


Honestly I can't see if it would be.
The only reference to livestock is a horse being ridden or led at less then 10mph.
A runaway pig is not a horse, nor being led or ridden.
Although there are exemptions that require the speed to be less then 10mph, they are specific, not general.

A horse is generally not livestock although a pig is.


And the closest thing to livestock in exemptions to crossing a solid longitudinal line down the centre of the carriageway is a horse.
Whether or not a horse is livestock.


QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:57) *
Well DancingDad, the problem becomes, if you can't legally overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


Nothing says you cannot overtake anything biggrin.gif
Solid white line down the centre or not.
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:54
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:34) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:57) *
Well DancingDad, the problem becomes, if you can't legally overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


Nothing says you cannot overtake anything biggrin.gif
Solid white line down the centre or not.

Ok, let me reformulate. If you can't legally cross the solid white line down the centre in order to overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake if doing so requires crossing the solid white line? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:35
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:54) *
........Ok, let me reformulate. If you can't legally cross the solid white line down the centre in order to overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake if doing so requires crossing the solid white line? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


Way I understand it is that crossing (or straddling) the solid white line in the centre (assuming on your side) is the offence.
With, as been discussed ad nauseam, exceptions which specify when it is allowable if it is safe to do so.
So doesn't really matter what you are overtaking or even if not overtaking, the basic is, ya canna cross the line.

But to play the game....
It really doesn't matter what example you cite to get a measuring point.
Or if you go the other way and include a cow or an elephant.
None are specifically cited as something you can lawfully overtake if the act means you have to cross or straddle the line.
Swerving to avoid comes into avoiding an accident so acceptable, may be stupid as can lead to loss of control but I'd rather avoid an elephant then hit one.

How do you see a microbe in the road ahead anyway?
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 00:48
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 23:35) *
How do you see a microbe in the road ahead anyway?

I have very good eyesight.


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666
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 06:35
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:54) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 22:34) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 18:57) *
Well DancingDad, the problem becomes, if you can't legally overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


Nothing says you cannot overtake anything biggrin.gif
Solid white line down the centre or not.

Ok, let me reformulate. If you can't legally cross the solid white line down the centre in order to overtake a pig, what else can't you overtake if doing so requires crossing the solid white line? A fox? A dog? A cat? A mouse? A lizard? A worm? An ant? A tardigrade? Microbes? Where do you draw the line?


It's not up to you or me to draw the line.

The line is already drawn by the legislation, which is very clear and concerns a horse and no other form of animal life.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 06:50
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QUOTE (spanner345 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 09:50) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:25) *
so again do flat earthers believe the earth doesn't rotate? If it doesn't how do all the planets in the nigh sky go round us so fast?

One of the many strange things about the Flat Earthers (well, some of them at least - no doubt there are many competing factions) is that they accept that other planets are spherical, but not the Earth.
As no one has ever been into space to gather the evidence, nobody really knows.

So how do the same celestial objects have different features if they are flat (not a rotating sphere)? So how come they all mysteriously face the flat side to us and we never see a flat edge, how come we miraculously accelerate the flat side up, why not an edge?

How fast must the earth be moving accelerating upwards at that rate for tens of thousands of years, why hasn’t the atmosphere fallen off the edge under the force of that acceleration for a fair few million years?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 11:41


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ManxRed
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 11:17
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How come, when you're on a ferry, the cliffs of the place you've left, or the poles that those monstrous windmill things are mounted on eventually dip down below the horizon as you travel further away?


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I am Weasel
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 12:16
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spanner345
post Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 12:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 06:50) *
QUOTE (spanner345 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 09:50) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 12:25) *
so again do flat earthers believe the earth doesn't rotate? If it doesn't how do all the planets in the nigh sky go round us so fast?

One of the many strange things about the Flat Earthers (well, some of them at least - no doubt there are many competing factions) is that they accept that other planets are spherical, but not the Earth.
As no one has ever been into space to gather the evidence, nobody really knows.

So how do the same celestial objects have different features if they are flat (not a rotating sphere)? So how come they all mysteriously face the flat side to us and we never see a flat edge, how come we miraculously accelerate the flat side up, why not an edge?

How fast must the earth be moving accelerating upwards at that rate for tens of thousands of years, why hasn’t the atmosphere fallen off the edge under the force of that acceleration for a fair few million years?

https://forum.tfes.org/ or https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/


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