SABA Parking Fine Options

[SABAParkingFine]

Hi All,

Just wondered if anyone can give any advice, the driver of my car used a car park owned by South Eastern Railways, but is managed by SABA Car Parking. The driver always parks in the same spot and have the app on my phone, the driver has never used the paypoint machine in the car park, but the driver did take pictures of the signage and parking machine when they first started using this car park.

Now due to the cost £6.80 a day and the local area offering cheaper alternative parking the car park is mostly empty every morning the driver gets there, just before the driver leaves the car they purchase a daily ticket through the SABA parking app costing £6.80 a time.

The driver has done this this 6 times so far and once leaving my car in the same place for two days in the same spot they usually park in without any issue.

Unfortunately having done as previously described the other day the driver was met with a PENALTY NOTICE when they got back to the car, confused they thought their payment didn't go through as it had been a long day, but after checking the app it showed they had clearly paid for parking valid from 12th July 12:00 - 12th July 11:59 that day.

Having read the PCN it stated that the driver was in "110 - In breach of parking in permit holders parking before 9:30". Having looked around the driver couldn't work out what this meant and thought it meant the Parking warden had gotten confused and falsely issued a ticket. After having a good look around the car park this morning, there are tiny signs denoting the restrictions about 20cm x 30cm.

I've already submitted an appeal, but I have a feeling this is going to come back referring to the signs which state the restrictions, but at no point on entry to the car park does it state there are different zones for parking, nor are those bays different in colour or size.

Where does the driver stand on this, having paid for parking for the whole day I don't feel they should have be penalised for a car park which is empty everyday and those spaces left un-occupied. The driver feel's wrongly targeted and I'm not normally caught out by things like this, but due to the fact they aren't very well signed I missed this.

Any help would be appreciated.

This post has been edited by SABAParkingFine: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 - 13:16

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[Gary Bloke]

Bays which are "Premier Parking" should be clearly defined via signage and via different coloured lines around the bays. If they haven't done this they cannot expect you to know which bays are standard bays and which ones are reserved for "Premier" customers.

[The Rookie]

EDIT your post immediately, you are contesting this as ‘the keeper’, the person driving should only ever be referred to as ‘the driver’ a different legal entity, this is VERY important with railway land tickets.

[nosferatu1001]

Show us exactly what you said in your appeal.

[SABAParkingFine]

Thanks for the replies already.

In my online appeal to SABA, I stated the driver always parks in this particular spot and has never occurred penalty before and having purchased a valid day permit to park there were no restrictions stated during the purchase of this ticket through their app.

I also attached screenshots showing the parking was validated from 12th July from 12:00AM to 11:59PM.

I have also taken pictures of the signage on the pay and display machine, but i've not sent this to them as of yet as I am waiting to see what they come back with.

The lines of the bays are not marked as they are white (the same as all other bays), the only alternate markings are hashed yellow areas of where you CANNOT park due to exit and entry access.

This post has been edited by SABAParkingFine: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 - 13:30

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[SABAParkingFine]

As you can see from the Google Maps image attached, the RED dot is where the driver was parked.

The other side of the line is the same car park, just with different access and you can see that bays for season ticket holders are clearly marked with yellow lines, written signage stating "SEASON TICKET HOLDERS ONLY BEFORE 9:30".

This is not the case for the section of the car park the driver was situated in.

You can see the bays clearly marked here:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Chatham+S...#33;4d0.5211781

This post has been edited by SABAParkingFine: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 - 13:56

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[bobthesod]

OP
Being a bit pedantic, but why has the driver got an app on a phone you have access to and use when you park there??? lol... amend the offending words to 'the driver uses an app on HIS phone'..see the subtle difference,

[Gary Bloke]

OK so this is not about "Premier Parking" - this is an area reserved for car park season ticket holders. There are similar arrangements at some other station car parks - the only indication is a notice fixed to the payment machine. Of course, when you're in a hurry and you're paying by phone, you don't need to go near the payment machine so you never see the notice stating that the car park is reserved for season ticket holders only before 09:30.

There might also have been a sign at the car park entrance stating this restriction, but it may have been dark and you might not have noticed this entry sign, especially if if it was positioned high up and on the opposite side of the entrance to the large white SABA sign, the one which you were probably straining to read due to the incredibly small lettering.

This post has been edited by Gary Bloke: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 - 14:32

[SABAParkingFine]

OK so this is not about "Premier Parking" - this is an area reserved for car park season ticket holders. There are similar arrangements at some other station car parks - the only indication is a notice fixed to the payment machine. Of course, when you're in a hurry and you're paying by phone, you don't need to go near the payment machine so you never see the notice stating that the car park is reserved for season ticket holders only before 09:30.

There might also have been a sign at the car park entrance stating this restriction, but it may have been dark and you might not have noticed this entry sign, especially if if it was positioned high up and on the opposite side of the entrance to the large white SABA sign, the one which you were probably straining to read due to the incredibly small lettering.

Of course, but I would argue that it’s not premier parking as after the hours of 9:30 it becomes regular “permit parking” and therefore creates an opportunity for any one who’s in a hurry or the area not being clearly marked to miss. The fact the car park is empty most days indicates such restrictions are required and their just for opportunity in order to catch people out.

Furthermore the bays are not clearly marked, so the driver would’ve not been able to clearly see weather they took a long walk around the car park or a pull up, park, pay via app and on to the train.

Also as you can see from the car park managed and run by the same people they’ve obviously had issues with this previously due to the fact the bays are marked in yellow, also signed as well as road written markings in front of them. Unfortunately the same design has not been carried forward and therefore if they had the driver would not have parked in these as it’s clear they are for some greater use and a fine would be incurred.

[Gary Bloke]

Premier Parking means you reserve a space for yourself only and no-one else is allowed to park in that space. You are guaranteed to get your reserved space every day.
Season Ticket (same as "permit holders") means you pay for regular parking per week or per month or per year, but you have no guarantee of getting a space. The per day price is less than just paying for one day, because you are buying in bulk.
Regular parking is just turning up and paying for that day.

[SABAParkingFine]

Premier Parking means you reserve a space for yourself only and no-one else is allowed to park in that space. You are guaranteed to get your reserved space every day.
Season Ticket (same as "permit holders") means you pay for regular parking per week or per month or per year, but you have no guarantee of getting a space. The per day price is less than just paying for one day, because you are buying in bulk.
Regular parking is just turning up and paying for that day.

As the app states, the driver will although pay for parking through the app, they will have no guarantee of a parking space on arrival.

Which still begs the argument, if the parking company only affix a small sign which is only visible at certain angles to the driver if in front of the sign then how would the driver know its there if it's not stated on the parking machine or signage above stating the tariffs?

I asked the driver to take some further pictures last night of the setup, they said they were parked in the second to last bay.

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[Gary Bloke]

The signage looks non-existent to me.

[The Rookie]

Agreed, not a hope of enforcing that.

[SABAParkingFine]

Agreed, not a hope of enforcing that.

So they've come back explaining that they wish to uphold the parking ticket and my appeal was unsuccessful, so i've just called them to ask them to justify why they feel this way and to point out the discrepancies between each car park.

They stated that the car park the driver parked in is for season ticket holders ONLY, but after 9:30 anyone is able to park in this car park, which is why it has a ticker pay and display machine and secondly why it doesn't need to differentiate between normal and season ticket bays as in their eyes they are all classed as season ticket holder before the hours of 9:30 mon - Friday and after that it turns into a normal car park.

There apparently signs as you go into the car park, but I did not see anything stating this otherwise i'd of not parked here. I shall pop down there tonight to take some more pictures of my own.

Is this correct? If they don't have a gated system on a season ticket holders car park and you park inside the car park and buy a ticket which covers you through the app which doesn't say about these restrictions they don't have to denote the differences or sign it correctly?

Seems odd to me any of this could stand up in a court of law?

[nosferatu1001]

NoooOO! NEVER CALL THEM. EVER.

Eveyrthing you do MUSt be in writing.

[ManxRed]

Think hard. Did you say anything on the phone call which implied you were driving? Even a simple 'I didn't see any signs' is enough.

They'll have a recording of that.

[SABAParkingFine]

Think hard. Did you say anything on the phone call which implied you were driving? Even a simple 'I didn't see any signs' is enough.

They'll have a recording of that.

don't panic i'm not an idiot!

Everything was clear as THE DRIVER, and the quickest way to see how they're going to play out these issues is to call the company, the guy didn't know anything and was only able to tell me about what evidence they had so it worked in the drivers favour really.

The driver is looking for advice here, not constant rules of the forum lol.

What legal grounds do these people have based on my position or should I contact a parking expert who specialises in parking law?

[Gary Bloke]

Change the second sentence of your original post.

It appears that the driver either entered this car park by going down the ramp from Hill's Terrace, or they entered down the exit ramp past the "no entry" signs. If the latter, then there may not be any signage visible, since the driver would have been going the wrong way. If the former, then there appears to be big yellow lettering on the ramp - but cannot see what it says from the Google maps photo. Possible that the driver drove over this or it is partially erased?

You have not posted any pics of the signs which says the area is for season ticket holders only.

This post has been edited by Gary Bloke: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 16:56

[nosferatu1001]

The driver is not looking for anything, only the keeper is.

[ManxRed]

The driver is looking for advice here, not constant rules of the forum lol.

The KEEPER is looking for advice. These aren't forum rules, they are pieces of valuable advice given by people who have been on this forum for donkeys years and understand the legal position relating to these companies and their schemes inside out.

If we 'advise' not to call them, we're doing it for a bloody good reason, not because its a forum rule.