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TFL Red Route - Wrong Location
keyround
post Sat, 4 May 2019 - 12:38
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I've read a few threads relating to Red Routes already and I'm wondering if you can advise if I have an appeal opportunity here;

Essentially I've been caught on a red route, and they've got all the bits they need to prove detailed in the PCN.

The road the contravention is said to have taken place is correct. However, this is a road with many red route parking boxes (unsure of the correct term) along the road. I have checked on google maps, and the red route parking box referred to in the PCN is actually a different red route parking box to the one I've been found in. It's about 20 doors down from the parking box my car is in shown in the images, and is actually across a junction from it.

Furthermore, the No Stopping rules are the same for both red route parking boxes;

No Stopping 7am -7 PM

However, the exceptions are different;

Actual contravention location: Except 7am-1pm - parking 20 mins - no return 2 hours

PCN contravention location: Except 7am-1pm - parking 1 hour - no return 2 hours

Is this enough to appeal the PCN given that the red route parking box they allege the contravention to have taken place in is incorrect? Or is having the Correct road and time coupled with images of the contravention (albeit in a different place) enough for them?

And if I do have grounds for appeal based on this; what are the key points I should mention in my appeal letter? Also, am I better off waiting til near the end of my appeal period to send my appeal?

P.S. Not too keen on posting images at this stage if it can be avoided.

This post has been edited by keyround: Sat, 4 May 2019 - 12:40
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post Sat, 4 May 2019 - 12:38
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Neil B
post Sat, 4 May 2019 - 13:12
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QUOTE (keyround @ Sat, 4 May 2019 - 13:38) *
P.S. Not too keen on posting images at this stage if it can be avoided.

Why?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Sat, 4 May 2019 - 18:57
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Read this in full http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125502 then update your opening post.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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keyround
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 13:29
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I've read a few threads relating to Red Routes already and I'm wondering if you can advise if I have an appeal opportunity here;

Essentially I've been caught on a red route, and they've got all the bits they need to prove detailed in the PCN.

The road the contravention is said to have taken place is correct. However, this is a road with many red route parking boxes (unsure of the correct term) along the road. I have checked on google maps, and the red route parking box referred to in the PCN is actually a different red route parking box to the one I've been found in. The PCN is for stopping at a red route parking box outside of numbers 47-55, however the red route parking box I'm actually in is outside 33-39. The two red route parking boxes are completely separate, and there is even a side road between them.

Furthermore, the No Stopping rules are the same for both red route parking boxes;

No Stopping 7am -7 PM

However, the exceptions are different;

Actual contravention location: Except 7am-1pm - parking 20 mins - no return 2 hours

PCN contravention location: Except 7am-1pm - parking 1 hour - no return 2 hours

Is this enough to appeal the PCN given that the red route parking box they allege the contravention to have taken place in is incorrect? Or is having the Correct road and time coupled with images of the contravention (albeit in a different place) enough for them?

And if I do have grounds for appeal based on this; what are the key points I should mention in my appeal letter? Also, am I better off waiting til near the end of my appeal period to send my appeal?




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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 13:33
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Where?
Mick
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Neil B
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 13:41
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There's already a thread on this somewhere.
No detail there either.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 19:14
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keyround you need to tell us the contravention location.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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keyround
post Mon, 6 May 2019 - 22:38
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 6 May 2019 - 20:14) *
keyround you need to tell us the contravention location.


Stoke Newington High Street
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cp8759
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 11:34
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You are entitled to take the PCN at face value. The accusation you face is that you were stopped on a red route on Stoke Newington High Street outside 47 to 55 so here https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5584363,-...33;8i8192?hl=en

However the location you were actually parked at was here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5582993,-...33;8i6656?hl=en

Below is a draft representation you could send:

---------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

The PCN alleged that at 16:51 my vehicle was stopped on a red route on Stoke Newington High Street in the bay located outside numbers 47 to 55, which is located to the immediate north of the junction with Victorian Grove.

However my vehicle, as demonstrated by your own photographic evidence, was in fact parked in the bay outside numbers 33 to 39, this bay is located outside the Tesco Express store and is to the immediate south of the junction with Victorian Grove. I note the restrictions in these two parking bays are different.

It might be that a parking contravention occurred, but the parking contravention alleged on the PCN clearly did not, as my vehicle was simply not at the location alleged. As the contravention alleged did not occur, the PCN must be cancelled. The fact that a contravention might have occurred at a different location does not change this.

However should you reject this representation, please provide a DVD with the video footage you rely on.

Hugs and kisses,

keyround


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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keyround
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 23:45
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Thank you so much for that response. That's really helpful.

I had a look around your forums and found this; http://content.tfl.gov.uk/eops-schedule2-a...iness-rules.pdf

Is it worth citing 6.11 in my representation that states the representation should be accepted if the location on the PCN is incorrect?

Also, is there any benefit to waiting near the end of the 21 days before submitting my representation?

This post has been edited by keyround: Tue, 7 May 2019 - 23:46
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cp8759
post Wed, 8 May 2019 - 20:23
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I wouldn't mention 6.11, if they reject out of hand you can use that to make a secondary argument that they've failed to follow their own policy. There is literally zero benefit in delaying.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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keyround
post Fri, 24 May 2019 - 20:14
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So I sent a response pretty similar to cp8759's in my appeal.

Yesterday I received a DVD with the footage of the contravention along with an extremely short letter essentially saying "here is the DVD of the footage you requested".

Other than that, I have had no correspondence so far regarding the outcome of my appeal.

As they have sent me the DVD footage in response to my appeal ("However should you reject this representation, please provide a DVD with the video footage you rely on."), am I assume that they have rejected my appeal, or should I wait for their response.

If I do wait, get no response, which leads to the fine increasing in cost, does that have any bearing if I choose to contest the fine or how much I'm paying in future if I did not receive a response to my appeal?
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cp8759
post Sat, 25 May 2019 - 13:09
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This being a Traffic Management Act 2004 case, the council have to serve a formal Notice of Rejection before the end of the period of 56 days beginning with the date on which they received your representations. if they fail to do so, the law says they're deemed to have accepted your representations and the penalty is cancelled.

The DVD letter doesn't mean anything, they will have sent that to you just to be on the safe side (If I were them, I would have probably done the same). You don't want to solicit a response,just wait. Once the 56 days have elapsed, if you've still not heard anything, give them a call and ask for an update.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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keyround
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 01:10
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Representation accepted. PCN cancelled. Thanks for your help cp8759.
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