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BUS LANE TICKETS - ACCUMULATED 5 SENT TO WRONG ADDRESS
Teddy2021
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 18:09
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hello everyone,

can you please help, last week i received a phone call from a man that bought my dads old house two years ago, saying he has collected a lot of important looking letters for me. i then collected said letters. upon opening i have only just found out that i have accumulated 5 bus lane tickets from november 2020 - january 2021.

the first letter sent was a warning letter stating that i am being sent this letter as a warning - this time there is no charge but next time there will be a charge of £60. the letter also states that on the 30th november 2021 the council (edinburgh ) will commence bus lane enforcement. (it wasnt commencing until then due to covid).

then the next 5 letters i opened were charge notice letters of 5 different dates of when i was in a bus lane - with photos and times saying if i paid within 14 days the fine would be £30 after that £60.
the next 5 letters i opened were charge certificates saying that as i have not paid these fines they have increased by 50% to £90 each.
then 3 more letters were opened from a debt collection agency saying i owe them £450. the last date on the letters was in april 2021. and nothing since - to my old address - or the one i have been living in since february 2021.



a couple things to note -

on all these letters my name has been spelled wrong - an extra letter has been added into my second name. not sure if this accounts for anything?

secondly the bus lane tickets are all from the same location - i have just entered a bus lane before the arrows to then turn left into my street - i read on a forum a 10metre /20 metre rule exists ? can anyone explain this?

also does it matter the time frame between the detection date and date notice posted? as on two of the 'charge certificates' the detection date was 29/01/2021 and the date notice posted was 11/03/2021, and another detection date 26/01/2021 and date notice posted 08/03/2021.


and i am unsure why edinburgh council have sent this to my old address - when i have registered with edinburgh council to living in edinburgh since june 2020. - i now understand this part - hadnt changed dvla address until i was in permanent housing.


also if i had received the first warning letter - i wouldnt have accumulated 5 tickets, as i would have stopped going into the bus lane.


also there is no signage in any of the letters showing bus lane enforcement times.


i only have knowledge about these fines due to the new owner of my old house informing me (september 2021).
i have had no contact from the council /debt collection agencies at my current address/phone number/email.

i think i have grounds to appeal due to them not being allowed to escelate debt if i wasnt aware i had the tickets?

is this right?? if anyone wants to see any of the letters let me know.

thank you all

This post has been edited by Teddy2021: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 19:01
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post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 18:09
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Neil B
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 18:44
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Not a lot you can do but you could start by not SHOUTING.
QUOTE (Teddy2021 @ Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 19:09) *
AND I AM UNSURE WHY EDINBURGH COUNCIL HAVE SENT THIS TO MY OLD ADDRESS

Well you tell us? What address is/was on the V5C?

This post has been edited by Neil B: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 18:45


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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mummyof3
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 18:49
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Since you moved address did you change your V5C with DVLA and your driving licence?

If not, then this may be the reason why you have not received any letters to your current address.

and turn off your CAPS.


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"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump
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Teddy2021
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 19:00
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My address at the time was uncertain and not permanent - so I didn't change my license until I moved into a permanent address.

This lady here had the same situation and ended up with a successful result by using your forum so i thought i may be able to get the same help.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discus...rong-address/p2

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Neil B
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 19:14
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What has your driving licence got to do with it. We asked about the V5?

If you left the address did you make provision for mail to be forwarded?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Teddy2021
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 19:27
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The v5 + driving license were changed when my address became permanent.

I had no mail arriving at this address - bank / insurance etc all paperless so didn't see a need to forward any mail.
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Neil B
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 20:09
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The thread from MSE you referred to, which linked back here, really didn't progress.

More importantly, it was an English case: There is no reset process in Scotland.

I think all you can do is to explain to Edinburgh and hope they exercise some discretion; but I don't hold out much hope.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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DJ Lexy
post Tue, 21 Sep 2021 - 21:21
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I don't have good news for you. You're in a bit of a mess and this is not going to be pleasant.

Don't look up forum posts from people in England. The law is substantially different there.

English councils can't send bailiffs after you for PCNs unless they have permission from a court. There's a special court in Northampton that deals with all PCNs in England. All an English motorist has to do is post a form to the court asking permission to file paperwork out-of-time. If successful, that resets the process back to the beginning and they can appeal or pay the normal amount.

Scottish councils don't need a court's permission to send Sheriffs Officers after you for PCNs. Their Charge Certificates are "as good as" a Sheriff Court's order with a warrant for execution. After the Charge Certificate, it goes straight to debt collection with no court or appeals process in the middle.

We've spent a lot of time researching how things work in Scotland, and it has been hard going. It looks like the only option is to formally file court paperwork. Not a simple check-box form like England, but a full-blown application to the court to hear a case. The Citizens Advice Bureau might be able to help.

The alternative is that you phone the council and politely explain the situation. This has worked for some people. In some cases they've reset the Penalty Charge Notices to £60. In other cases that've upheld one charge but cancelled the subsequent ones.

You have a legal obligation to update your V5C promptly when you move. A lot of people come to this forum because they forget to update it and suddenly find debt collectors after them because the paperwork has gone to their old address. You mentioned it took you a while to find permanent accommodation - if there's some sort of hardship or family problem, that might help if you explained it to the council or put that in any court paperwork you send.

In summary, try phoning the council and see if they'll budge. If not, go to the Citizens Advice Bureau.

Whatever you do, don't just ignore it. The Sheriff's Officers can apply for something called 'Diligence' against you. This lets them take money directly out of your bank account, or contact your employer and have them seize part of your paycheque each month. That's a very embarrassing thing for your HR rep or manager to know about you!
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cp8759
post Wed, 22 Sep 2021 - 12:29
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There is a member of the Scottish Parliament who has an interest in these sorts of cases, if you'd like me to put you in touch with them please let me know.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Teddy2021
post Thu, 23 Sep 2021 - 01:28
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Yes that would be great if you could! Thank you smile.gif
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hcandersen
post Thu, 23 Sep 2021 - 09:27
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Yes that would be great if you could! Thank you

Perhaps in parallel, but NOT instead of.

And don't phone the council to explain, write.

And do it yesterday.

Your circumstances to set the context and be honest i.e. did not update V5C because you didn't have a permanent address because of your housing context.
Don't go into pointless detail: they know the PCNs and where they are in the procedure. Just refer to the PCN numbers.
Apologise - don't go anywhere near arguing the toss about distances etc.
Say you only became aware on **** since when panic set in - as they would imagine when faced with a combined bill of £*** which came out of the blue.
Apologise again, is there any way the council would accept a resolution other than for the total sum of £***, please, please, please.
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cp8759
post Thu, 23 Sep 2021 - 10:44
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 23 Sep 2021 - 10:27) *
Yes that would be great if you could! Thank you

Perhaps in parallel, but NOT instead of.

+1, you must take this up with the council as well, but in the meantime I have sent you a PM.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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