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TFL Red Route Stoppage fine for stopping in loading bay with exemption
Plywood-Enthusia...
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 12:23
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Hi

I drove my wifes car to a nearby cash and carry, intending to buy 10kg of meat for a barbecue. I wasn't in there for any longer than 10 mins and left my car on a loading bay which allowed for loading between 10am-4pm (I used the bay at 1:57pm). I didnt find the items I was looking for but I did buy two large chickens. I know that there's a grey area between "loading" and shopping.

I then received a PCN via CCTV, they used the charge of stopping on a red route but not the charge of parking in a loading bay without loading. I would have thought this would be a automatic cancellation because the bay clearly states that it can be used during the time that I used it and overrules the red route.

Attached all the docs, your thoughts welcome.

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This post has been edited by Plywood-Enthusiast: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 12:25
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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 20:35
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 17:32) *
QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 16:30) *
QUOTE (Plywood-Enthusiast @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 23:02) *
Wife had to pay, she was about to give birth in a few days and couldn't be bothered to deal with this so we just paid the fine just within the discount period.

...deleted...

I successfully managed to appeal mine, using covert techniques. I just deleted my method because I don't know whose reading this, could be police, could be traffic enforcement, could be goody two shoes who will report me to tfl for the post and get them to do detective work to find out who I am.

Short answer.. they're not going to bother scrutinising the paperwork you send in. wink.gif


Is "covert techniques" some sort of euphemism for "telling a bunch of porkies"? The Police wouldn't be interested as it's a Civil Contravention, not a Criminal Offence.

I beg to differ, as per regulation 14 of the Appeals Regs:

False representations

14.—(1) A person who makes any representation under Part 2 or 3 of these Regulations, or under the Schedule so far as it relates to an appeal under Part 2 or 3, which is false in a material particular, and does so recklessly or knowing it to be false, is guilty of an offence.

(2) A person convicted of an offence under paragraph (1) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.


I think we can infer the paperwork submitted might well have been false in a material particular, or else there would have been no need to delete the details.

You are quite correct, but I can't see the Police rushing to investigate what is a pretty low level crime. I suppose LT could lay information before a Court and get a Warrant issued, and the Police might - if they've got nothing better to do - go round the last known address, but mostly a "wanted missing" marker would be placed on PNC, and only if the person on it is arrested for another Offence or is stopped and name checked would the warrant come to light and action taken. There are people walking around London with several "wanted missing" markers on them.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 20:48
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post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 20:35
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cp8759
post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 21:55
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Erm, no that's not how these things work. For starters, if a court issues a warrant, it's the details of the warrant that go onto PNC, the processing staff don't have any discretion to downgrade a court warrant to a missing person marker. But you can't get a warrant for a non-imprisonable offence, as per section 1(4) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980:

(4) No warrant shall be issued under this section for the arrest of any person who has attained the age of 18 years unless—
(a) the offence to which the warrant relates is an indictable offence or is punishable with imprisonment, or
(b) the person’s address is not sufficiently established for a summons to be served on him.


LT is a judicial tribunal and it is hardly going to instigate criminal proceedings, that would be wholly improper. A criminal prosecution is an executive act and although we don't have a written constitution, the division of the judicial, executive and legislative branches of the state are recognised as being part of the constitutional setup of the country. In any event LT have no powers to prosecute.

A more viable possibility is that TFL might prosecute by obtaining a summons, in which case Plywood-Enthusiast could either contest the charge, or ignore it and TFL would obtain a conviction in his absence. The fine would then be collected by HMCTS using all the normal avenues that are used to pursue unpaid court fines.

Of course, the chances of TFL bothering is low, but that's another matter entirely.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 21:55


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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