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No Right Turn PCN (Western Rd., Romford), ...but I did a U-Turn!
richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 16:50
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Hi all,
My Missus had received a 50r PCN from Havering Council for doing a U Turn where (she didn't know) there was a No Right Turn sign (and camera!)
We've just got back from holiday to a letter saying £65 is payable or £130 if not paid within 14 days... (at least, I think that's what it says - it's in legalese, obviously!)
I've seen a couple of threads about on this one and was wondering if there was any updated guidance on ways to appeal with a reasonable chance of success, please?
Many thanks!
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post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 16:50
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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 17:01
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I've also noticed that the first paragraph in the PCN appears to be missing some info. possibly re times (?), as it says: "... The vehicle identified above was observed from to on 28/07/2018..."

Also, the images Havering provide on their website and on the PCN show the car starting and midway through the U-Turn - you can see from the angle of the car in the second image that the Missus is completing a U-turn and not turning right...!
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stamfordman
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 17:06
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You know what to do - post the PCN. Use a pic site.
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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 19:27
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Sorry, yes of course. Please find below link to pic of PCN. Thanks again.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QJHK73t6ojgKceYC7
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stamfordman
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 19:44
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Reinstate times and see if there is a video on council site. PM me the details if you have trouble.

The time is stated on the PCN (but you've blanked it for some reason).

I think we've had one or two u-turn cases here but can't find them for now.
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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 19:57
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Thanks for the reply. I blanked the times as I figured the powers that be probably prowl these sites to counter any dissent(!) and the times would easily narrow the PCN down to the Missus.
Re the video - I've been on the council's website the PCN said to visit - it provides two images, two seconds apart, but no video is provided...

This post has been edited by richythepom: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:00
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stamfordman
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:06
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Try here for video:

https://parking.havering.gov.uk/pages/Onlin...pe=NOTICEREVIEW

Council knows who you are (or the reg keeper at least) - that's how you got the PCN. They can only proceed according to prescribed process. It's private tickets where it's important not to reveal certain details.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:06
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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:14
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Yeah - that's the site I went to. It shows two still pics only - one as she's travelling along the road and just about to start her U-turn and one when she's facing the other way on the other side of the road and about to reverse in order to give her the space to complete the U-turn before rejoining the road - two seconds apart.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:18
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London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.
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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:35
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:18) *
London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. Can't catch moped robbers, drug dealers and gang members, but plenty of protocol/resource for screwing the real threats to society - the dreaded right-turners and bus-lane dippers!!!
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Neil B
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 20:57
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:18) *
London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.

Eh? I must have missed something. I can only vaguely recall one unsuccessful case.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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richythepom
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:04
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:57) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:18) *
London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.

Eh? I must have missed something. I can only vaguely recall one unsuccessful case.


This sounds more hopeful! Please tell me more!
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richythepom
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 18:57
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Any more input for this one?
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Incandescent
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 19:41
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:57) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:18) *
London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.

Eh? I must have missed something. I can only vaguely recall one unsuccessful case.

There was, as I recall, a "group adjudication" (three adjudicators acting as a panel), that decided what was a U-turn and what was not. Whilst I read the whole thing when it came out, I'm damned if I can find it now ! However, I think it did deal with the No RH turn sign and a person U-turning but I may be wrong.
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richythepom
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 19:46
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:41) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:57) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 21:18) *
London Tribunals have a protocol on this one, and I don't think you'll get away with ignoring a No RH turn by U-turning.

Eh? I must have missed something. I can only vaguely recall one unsuccessful case.


There was, as I recall, a "group adjudication" (three adjudicators acting as a panel), that decided what was a U-turn and what was not. Whilst I read the whole thing when it came out, I'm damned if I can find it now ! However, I think it did deal with the No RH turn sign and a person U-turning but I may be wrong.


Ah right, thanks. I'm just wondering whether to bother appealing or fork out the £65...?
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stamfordman
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 19:58
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We need to see the video - ask them for it. It may be there - what browser are you using? I said I'd check.
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richythepom
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:30
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:58) *
We need to see the video - ask them for it. It may be there - what browser are you using? I said I'd check.


I'm just using Google's browser (android phone). Havering council's website only shows the two still images....
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:32
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QUOTE (richythepom @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:30) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:58) *
We need to see the video - ask them for it. It may be there - what browser are you using? I said I'd check.


I'm just using Google's browser (android phone). Havering council's website only shows the two still images....

PM the PCN details to me or stamfordman and we'll get the video for you.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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richythepom
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:33
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QUOTE (richythepom @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 21:30) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:58) *
We need to see the video - ask them for it. It may be there - what browser are you using? I said I'd check.


I'm just using Google's browser (android phone). Havering council's website only shows the two still images....


I've added a screenshot of the still pics shown on the Havering Council website to the above linked album if that helps?
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cp8759
post Sat, 18 Aug 2018 - 20:37
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For a moving traffic offence we really prefer to see the video.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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