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Cyclist headbutts pedestrian
stamfordman
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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Caught on video in City of London.

Police are hunting a cyclist who headbutted a man to the ground after a near-miss on a pedestrian crossing.

The cyclist ran a red light in Farringdon Street in the City of London at around 1.45pm on 22 August, narrowly avoiding hitting the pedestrian who was crossing the road.

He then got off his bike, went back towards the businessman and headbutted him in the face, calmly cycling away as his victim lay sprawled on the pavement.

https://youtu.be/r1a0yfqcYzo

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/se...trian-in-london

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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southpaw82
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 20:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:15) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?

Bit of a misquote there SP, try harder please!

Pardon?


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Mat_Shamus
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 22:18
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I try not to stereotype too much but the only people i generally see who think bicycles should have registrations in the UK tend to have a general dislike to that demographic of road users and also don't have much experience regarding bicycles or using them.
I've never once met someone who cycles often think it's a good idea, because they know the problems tied with it.

Someone has already highlighted some of the issues with implementing it but no one seems to have made any comments about how to circumvent said issues, merely that they disagree

So just for clarity

Should all bicycles have registrations, including children's bikes?
If not, which ones should and which ones should not? Where is the cut off?

How . where specifically do you fit a registration plate to the rear of a full suspension bike, with a dropper seat post?

How would you link the registration plate to the bicycle if the bicycle does not have any identifying numbers on it or the frame?

Would the registration plate be linked to the entire bicycle, or just the frame? i.e if the bike is heavily modified throughput it's life and only the frame remains original, should the registration remain the same?

Would bicycles used only in off road, but also in areas with access to the public need registration plates, or just ones used on the road, alongside cars?



These are a fraction of the problems faced, alongside the others mentioned earlier by someone which is why it is nonsensical to anyone who has given it some real thought
And that is why the pedestrian example is used. The only reason most people will say that's silly for pedestrians and not cyclists is because most people are pedestrians at some point and not cyclists.


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Redivi
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 23:25
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Where I live mobility scooter users are a much bigger menace than cyclists
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mickR
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 23:35
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I also hate to sterotype, but it appears those who disagree with registration of cycles are those who ride them!
If fixing a plate to the bike is a problem what about the rider being registered. A high vis bib with an identifiable tag, Ie "Numerication of Bicycle" followed by a number eg; 1 that can of course be abbreviated to initials.

This post has been edited by mickR: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 23:37
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Redivi
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 00:31
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I can't see why registration should prevent a single injury accident, let alone the 20% that I used as an example

If, however, the estimate were correct the predicted result would be one avoidable death prevented every two years

To put the figure in perspective, the same result could be achieved by a 0.07% improvement in the performance of the NHS that manages to deliver one avoidable death every hour

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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 07:01
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:15) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?

Bit of a misquote there SP, try harder please!

Pardon?

"tiny benefit compared to the effort required" is a comparison, "tiny benefit" is an absolute statement.......

QUOTE (mickR @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 00:35) *
I also hate to sterotype, but it appears those who disagree with registration of cycles are those who ride them!
If fixing a plate to the bike is a problem what about the rider being registered. A high vis bib with an identifiable tag, Ie "Numerication of Bicycle" followed by a number eg; 1 that can of course be abbreviated to initials.

Perhaps because cyclists more readily see how unworkable it is.

Yes that on a high vis will work great under a rucksack........see what I mean about seeing it?


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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 07:35
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:01) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:15) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?

Bit of a misquote there SP, try harder please!

Pardon?

"tiny benefit compared to the effort required" is a comparison, "tiny benefit" is an absolute statement.......


Since you can’t put it in context: “what evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny compared to the effort required”? You may be correct but at the moment you’re making an assertion and I’m wondering if you have any evidence to back it up.

This whole thread seems to be littered with assertions and some of the responses when those assertions are challenged are interesting. As with many cycling threads it seems to generate more heat than light.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 09:55
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:35) *
Since you can’t put it in context: “what evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny compared to the effort required”?

Looking at the road death data for those caused by cyclists, either to themselves or others, even if all were prevented (obviously not going to happen) the benefit is tiny compared to overall road death numbers and how the money that would be needed to do this could be spent elsewhere. In addition you need to factor in the potential negative impact on health of potentially moving some of those people off bikes (due to the inconvenience) onto other transport with the negative health effects to them and air quality.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 11:02
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Presumably there’s also an unquantifiable element of safety to be achieved from what are currently unrecorded “near misses” and the like, potentially from enhanced compliance with the law?


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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 11:42
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Well changing a near miss to a bigger near miss doesn't seem materially to change anything really!

Enhanced compliance with the law would be a good thing of course, but for the register to work it would need enforcement, given we have almost none (which would improve compliance anyway) now it would dilute its effect and whether it would deter the likes of Mr Headbutt is very debatable.


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Korting
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:14
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Registration may not deter Mr Headbutt, but at least it might make it easier to find him.

It might also help the Police to catch the criminals who go around on bikes, stealing and terrorising other innocent people.
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Neil B
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:18
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 01:31) *
If, however, the estimate were correct the predicted result would be one avoidable death prevented every two years

Why are only deaths relevant?

What about damage to vehicles, same damage and to infrastructure and the injuries when a motor vehicle has
to avoid hitting a cyclist?

And it works both ways: Cyclist victims of unreported incidents can be traced if police feel prosecution of
a motorist is warranted.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:25
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QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:14) *
It might also help the Police to catch the criminals who go around on bikes, stealing and terrorising other innocent people.

Because it helps with mopeds?


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Charlie1010
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:46
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Plenty of criminals on bicycles stealing.
Not just on mopeds.

Also nearly knocked over the day by two elderly folk on bicycles riding on the pavement.
I would have reported them as it was not a nice experience.

This post has been edited by Charlie1010: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:46
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Fredd
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:46
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:25) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:14) *
It might also help the Police to catch the criminals who go around on bikes, stealing and terrorising other innocent people.

Because it helps with mopeds?

Well, we accept it works with cars - or perhaps we should scrap plates on those as well?

Cost aside, I don't really understand the visceral opposition of the Lycra tendency to the very idea of displaying identifying marks. There could even be an argument that bicycles being identifiable would reduce the "them and us" antagonism between cyclists and motorists, as they'd be seen as being equally accountable for their conduct.


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TonyS
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:13
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Taking it further if people had registration plates then you could trace any cyclist, pedestrian or motorist.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:23
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:42) *
Well changing a near miss to a bigger near miss doesn't seem materially to change anything really!

Not my point, which was that a near miss is unlikely to be recorded (and thus won’t appear in any statistics) but may nevertheless be suitable for follow up prosecution - as might happen with a car driver who doesn’t actually have an accident but is nevertheless driving carelessly etc.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 14:15
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:46) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:25) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:14) *
It might also help the Police to catch the criminals who go around on bikes, stealing and terrorising other innocent people.

Because it helps with mopeds?

Well, we accept it works with cars - or perhaps we should scrap plates on those as well?


It doesn't, because that sort of criminal is using stolen transport anyway......

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 14:23) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:42) *
Well changing a near miss to a bigger near miss doesn't seem materially to change anything really!

Not my point, which was that a near miss is unlikely to be recorded (and thus won’t appear in any statistics) but may nevertheless be suitable for follow up prosecution - as might happen with a car driver who doesn’t actually have an accident but is nevertheless driving carelessly etc.

Fair point, although many forces are loath to do anything sometimes even with camera evidence.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 14:20
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 15:13) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:46) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:25) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 13:14) *
It might also help the Police to catch the criminals who go around on bikes, stealing and terrorising other innocent people.

Because it helps with mopeds?

Well, we accept it works with cars - or perhaps we should scrap plates on those as well?


It doesn't, because that sort of criminal is using stolen transport anyway......

From past experience, I’d rather have a number plate, even of a stolen vehicle, than nothing. It can be useful for tracing the journey a vehicle took.


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 14:37
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There was one of the cop shows on TV a while back where the cyclist was riding like a knob, ( not some lout just a guy going from A to B ) Think he did the same as the cyclist on the OP and went through a pedestrian light on red. Copper saw him and ordered him to stop. Two fingers in the air and off he went. He would not have done so if he was identifiable I am sure.

The majority of cyclists do not know that they are breaking the law when the do such as this cos its only a bike it can do no harm


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