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Cyclist headbutts pedestrian
stamfordman
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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Caught on video in City of London.

Police are hunting a cyclist who headbutted a man to the ground after a near-miss on a pedestrian crossing.

The cyclist ran a red light in Farringdon Street in the City of London at around 1.45pm on 22 August, narrowly avoiding hitting the pedestrian who was crossing the road.

He then got off his bike, went back towards the businessman and headbutted him in the face, calmly cycling away as his victim lay sprawled on the pavement.

https://youtu.be/r1a0yfqcYzo

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/se...trian-in-london

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 10:15
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Fredd
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 09:13
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:11) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 09:53) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 07:53) *
any plan to fit plates to cycles (which is nonsensical with a small amount of applied thought),

Nonsensical, or just inconvenient and a bit expensive?

Nonsensical is what I meant.

Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical. Both registration and fitting a plate seem to be practical.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 09:27
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So a first bike used by a 5 year old needs a plate?
There are millions of bikes in the country, all would need registering.
There is no record of bikes, nor standardised method of doing so which would make cheating ridiculously easy (and invalidate any possible benefits).
The cost to the country in setting up the system (with potentially no benefit) would be huge.
The cost to individuals would be significant and many bikes would be exceedingly difficult to fit a plate to regardless (full suspension mountain bikes with dropper posts).
At a time when the government is trying to get more people on bikes in order to decrease our carbon footprint (net zero......), adding a barrier is not desirable to that aim.
Deaths and injuries caused by cyclists are (for obvious reasons) significantly lower (virtually insignificant) than for mechanically propelled vehicles.

Not impossible, but totally nonsensical.


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Fredd
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:03
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:27) *
Not impossible, but totally nonsensical.

The Japanese would disagree. Although to be fair they don't require a car/motorcycle-style plate to be displayed.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:10
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Which is totally contrary to the intent here! Its more about tracing ownership and liability if its dumped.

They also implemented it a LONG time ago so the process was there from day one of buying a bike, which gets around some of the issues I mentioned.

It's the only country in the world that does it..... says a lot!


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southpaw82
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:16
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:13) *
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical.


Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial.


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stamfordman
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:24
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No doubt it will be possible soon to easily track bikes through internet of things technology, say built into the frame. Same for cars. It does raise privacy issues.

the bike schemes such as Santander already have GPS and bluetooth tech built in I think.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:43
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stamfordman
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:09
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For the sake of a sort of balance, here's a car driver headbutting a cyclist:

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/...cyclist-2828273
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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:24
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:16) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:13) *
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical.


Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial.

Did you read why I think it's nonsensical?

The intent is one thing, its whether its both practical and effective. Using it to trace pedestrians would actually be far easier as we are already (mostly) uniquely identified by the government while cycles are not, so you'd just need to tag the public registration number to that identifier.


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Fredd
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 12:24) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 11:16) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:13) *
Perhaps you could share your wisdom, then, because it's not obvious to me why it's nonsensical.


Me either. If the intent is to make it easier to trace the keeper of a bicycle the fact that it is not a practical method to trace a pedestrian seems immaterial.

Did you read why I think it's nonsensical?

The intent is one thing, its whether its both practical and effective. Using it to trace pedestrians would actually be far easier as we are already (mostly) uniquely identified by the government while cycles are not, so you'd just need to tag the public registration number to that identifier.

The arguments you presented weren't really about practicality or effectiveness (apart from a sweeping assertion that it may have no benefit, which it clearly would), they were about cost and bureaucracy. However they were positively sensible compared to your "arguments" about pedestrians, which are just bizarre.


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southpaw82
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 13:17
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 12:24) *
Did you read why I think it's nonsensical?

Yes.


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stamfordman
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 13:35
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Man, 69, jailed for knocking teenager off bike in road rage row

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/se...n-road-rage-row
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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 14:53
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Cost and bureaucracy are most certainly come into whether something makes sense to do or not, otherwise we'd already have spent billions on a totally segregated cycling network.
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.


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southpaw82
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 16:17
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?


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Redivi
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:34
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The Department for Transport official costs (2017) for preventable fatal, serious and minor injuries are £1.9m, £213k and £21k respectively

According to this article, in 2016 three pedestrians were killed and 108 suffered seriously injury

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07...ts-has-doubled/

There are typically five minor injuries for every serious but for bikes I would expect a higher figure, say 20 = 2160 minor injuries

Back of the envelope estimate suggests an annual cost of pedestrian-cyclist collisions of about £70m

About 3m bikes a year are sold and Cycling UK estimates that about 6m people use them at least once a week

Even if a registration scheme could prevent an optimistic 20% of the casualty costs, to be cost-effective the scheme would have to cost less than £5/bike/year

There may some merit in GPS tracking of new bikes, possibly linked to an insurance policy but, as Stamfordman says, it then raises privacy issues

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:41
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?

If every cyclist who went through a red light was copped and fined £100 same for other offences No entry for instance any scheme would be self financing in a couple of years


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southpaw82
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:41
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Does it have to be cost effective?


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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:43
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:41) *
Does it have to be cost effective?


not for me but its a spanner for rookies argument


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Richy320
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:08
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Are we talking all bicycles here or just those used on the road?

If mountain bikes are excluded when off road, would they be required for the 10 metres or so where a trail crosses a road? A trail such as The Ridgeway, a popular cycling route that crosses many roads.

Are we also including children’s bicycles?

Is a BMX a child’s bike or an adult’s? Heck it’s an Olympic sport now!


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Redivi
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:38
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 18:41) *
Does it have to be cost effective?

For most road safety schemes it appears so

In this example from Norway of a range of road safety measures, there are only a couple of examples (one is bicycle helmets) where the benefit don't clearly outweigh the cost

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/...fit_analyses_en

Some industries such as railways or nuclear power are prepared to pay a lot more for every estimated life saved

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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 20:15
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 17:17) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 15:53) *
I didn't say no benefit, I just pointed out it was nonsensical when comparing what would be a tiny benefit compared to the effort required.

What evidence do you have that the benefit would be tiny?

Bit of a misquote there SP, try harder please!


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