Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a ticket CONTRAVENTION CODE 83 |
Parked in a car park without clearly displaying a ticket CONTRAVENTION CODE 83 |
Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:50
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Member No.: 60,109 |
Hi there
If anyone can help me that would be great. I dropped my grandmother of 79 years old to a restaurant to have lunch with her friends. I helped her out the car and walked her into the restaurant. I came back to the car and there was a ticket on my car. Ticket was observed at 15:46 and issued at 15:48. I am extremely unhappy about this as I was simply walking my grandmother into a restaurant. I checked the car park to look for the attendant and he was gone. This car park doesn't even have a pay and display machines - the only way to pay for parking is via an app - is this allowed? I feel that this attendant didn't even allow enough time at all to discover that I was not staying to park there. Any advice? (can't seem to upload my ticket) Thanks This post has been edited by Afcj123: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:53 |
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Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 10:50
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Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 11:11
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Are there clear signs about paying there?
There is a point that you can't display a ticket as per the contravention but the wording hasn't caught up with technology. A lot of councils now only operate parking apps and have got rid of pay meters. You can't blame the CEO for issuing a PCN if you leave the car unattended with no payment. Your best bet may be to ask for discretion on assisted (un)boarding if that was the nearest you could get to the restaurant. Is it on Google Street View? This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:51 |
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Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:40
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
We really need a link to the location on google street view.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 09:00
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Member No.: 60,109 |
Are there clear signs about paying there? There is a point that you can't display a ticket as per the contravention but the wording hasn't caught up with technology. A lot of councils now only operate parking apps and have got rid of pay meters. You can't blame the CEO for issuing a PCN if you leave the car unattended with no payment. Your best bet may be to ask for discretion on assisted (un)boarding if that was the nearest you could get to the restaurant. Is it on Google Street View? We really need a link to the location on google street view. I have a photo of the sign that is in the car park. If you could take a look that would be great? It is an actual car park and therefore the GSV stops at the entry to the car park I believe; https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.59643...1h,-8.68p,2.15z Would my best option still be to ask for discretion? I do feel that the CEO didnt leave enough time in between to issue the ticket? Thank you |
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Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 10:24
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
There must be another sign with the car park terms - we need to see that.
Where is the restaurant in relation to where you parked. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 11:07 |
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Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 08:34
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Member No.: 60,109 |
There must be another sign with the car park terms - we need to see that. Where is the restaurant in relation to where you parked. Here are the car parks terms and conditions, the restaurant requires you to park and walk around the corner. I simply parked in the closest but wide enough space to help my grandmother out of the vehicle. Today it has been 2 weeks - I think I may have until tomorrow to make an appeal Any advice would be great, thanks |
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Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 09:14
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
If you are dropping off a vulnerable person at the restaurant and were away from the car no longer than necessary I would put in a polite challenge telling the story. To expect someone to mess about setting up a a Ringgo account to drop someone off is not reasonable in my view.
Write something and post here first. |
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Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 08:30
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Member No.: 60,109 |
If you are dropping off a vulnerable person at the restaurant and were away from the car no longer than necessary I would put in a polite challenge telling the story. To expect someone to mess about setting up a a Ringgo account to drop someone off is not reasonable in my view. Write something and post here first. Hi there, here is my challenge, please let me know if it is ok? Dear Sir/Madam I wish to challenge PCN AF84796505 issued by London Borough of Redbridge on 05/04/2018. The PCN states contravention code 83 - parked in a car park without clearly displaying a valid pay & display ticket or parking clock. I believe the contravention did not occur as I had stopped my vehicle solely to assist my 79 year old grandmother to alight. I escorted her into Fiskardo Greek Restaurant which is approximately 20m away from my vehicle. It is not possible to stop directly at the door of the restaurant building as it is a short walk around the corner to enter so I had to stop in the closest but large enough space in order to assist her to get out the car and walk her in. I returned immediately to find a PCN attached to my vehicle. I was stopped for no longer than was necessary. The Civil Enforcement Officer was not able to observe my position of assisted (un)boarding my Grandmother as the CEO observation time for issuing the ticket states 15:46 to 15:48. An observation time of two minutes seems unreasonable under these circumstances as this is very little time to determine an (un)boarding/alighting exemption. I would refer to the guidance provided by the Traffic Penalty Tribunal which states; “Over the years, the setting-down provisions have needed to be sensitive to the needs of modern society. For example, a small child cannot simply be set down from a car and told to enter premises on its own. It is fundamental in today’s society that a child should be accompanied into a building and handed over to the care of another adult. Equally, a passenger with disabilities may need to be escorted into the premises they are entering. The same goes for elderly people, who may not be able to carry their own baggage to where they are going. Therefore, an unattended vehicle can be engaged in setting down a passenger even though the Parking Attendant did not see this taking place.” I trust that in the light of the foregoing the Council will see that a contravention did not occur and cancel the PCN accordingly. Yours faithfully |
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Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 08:40
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Looks good to me - clear and assertive.
I'm not sure there is actually an exemption in a car park - there is on yellow lines - but you may as well proceed on this basis. |
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Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 08:55
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 204 Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Member No.: 60,109 |
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Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 08:55
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,073 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Asserting something that's not correct? I cannot see the point. And as for being assertive, when you're on the backfoot I wouldn't.
OP, you left your car in a car park. You left the car park without paying. That you have a valid reason has clearly and mistakenly been in your mind since post #1. We've advised asking for discretion but you think your actions exempted you from the car park order and have ignored our advice They do not and IMO all your current approach would do would be to put the authority's back up. Pl don't go freelance with your tribunal quote, it's not relevant to your circumstances. I parked in *** for the sole purpose of helping my grandmother to the nearby **** where she was due to meet *****. I was gone for no more than **. While I was away, a CEO issued the PCN. I cannot really fault them for this as I had left the car park. I now understand that my assisting her probably does not exempt me from charges, but I would ask that on this occasion the authority might exercise discretion. Other factors: She is not sufficiently incapacitated to qualify for a BB, or if she is maybe this could be added. Can she/you substantiate her being in the restaurant - even a snapshot from a diary or calendar would help. |
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Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 11:12
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
HCA as always makes solid points.
I would say though that this is an over-zealous CEO - it's a low-level, non serious contravention and most councils give 5 or even 10 mins for payment to be sorted in a car park. So let's see if you've already sent it if the assertive approach works! PS you should post the PCN as there may be a fault on it. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 11:34 |
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