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hcandersen
Posted on: Today, 10:46


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They told me I could park on the pavement, as long as I had a suitable parking permit AND ensured I parked parallel to the bays so as not to break any parking laws

They are wrong.

As regards the raft of decriminalised contraventions with which the enforcement authority may deal, then none occurs in this case.

But it is still a criminal offence to park where you have (and to drive on the footway while getting to that location). The pavement is not for parking. The boys in blue could deal with you, probably based on obstruction. And don't even think that having a tree in front of you would change matters, no magistrate would take your side against that of the officer issuing the FPN.

But this is for the future.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376149 · Replies: 8 · Views: 162

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 21:10


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The BB wasn't displayed.
The BB wasn't displayed.
The BB wasn't displayed.

No policy, however construed, makes any ***** difference. The BB was not displayed.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1376082 · Replies: 12 · Views: 190

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:35


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Now you can see why we ask to see full docs ( which in the event you still didn't post!).

Clearly the entirety of their reply ignored the issue of legitimate expectation. 'Generic' in the words of the adj.

But don't get carried away, you were at fault and have no right to park there. That the authority failed to consider your full reps is their fault and one which saved your bacon.

Looking at the number of allowed appeals against Barnet on 19th alone, they've got their work cut out with volume and look as if they might be overloaded. But that's their problem and in this case your salvation.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375900 · Replies: 25 · Views: 1,584

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:23


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It's a fail by the carer.

How can Barnet be in the dock?

The carer parked the car.

The carer is responsible for/usually places the BB.

They didn't.

No-one was in the vehicle.

CEO issued PCN. Absolutely correct. It's not their task to extrapolate display of a BB to include 'provided the vehicle looks like one which a BB holder would be in/driving'.

What's the fuss about policy - there isn't one which allows vehicles to park with BBs on the floor!

Just write in, apologise, supply a copy of the BB, and ask for discretion.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375891 · Replies: 12 · Views: 190

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 11:12


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Agreed.

I just laid out the long version which could be shortened dramatically.

OP, you must provide your authority to make reps, stating that you have permission is not sufficient.

Don't quote the regs at this length, it makes it a difficult read.

And of course at this stage you need to refer to the fact that the contravention falls within the group of contraventions specified in para. 3 of Part 1 to Schedule 7 of the TMA which falls within the scope of the 10-minute prohibition in reg. 4(2) by virtue of being a contravention specified in reg. 4(1)(b).

In considering these representations, the authority must first review the superior legal context i.e. the regulations, and may not rely upon policies which, as in this case, have no legal standing.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375882 · Replies: 30 · Views: 1,204

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 08:55


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Asserting something that's not correct? I cannot see the point. And as for being assertive, when you're on the backfoot I wouldn't.

OP, you left your car in a car park. You left the car park without paying.

That you have a valid reason has clearly and mistakenly been in your mind since post #1. We've advised asking for discretion but you think your actions exempted you from the car park order and have ignored our advice

They do not and IMO all your current approach would do would be to put the authority's back up.

Pl don't go freelance with your tribunal quote, it's not relevant to your circumstances.

I parked in *** for the sole purpose of helping my grandmother to the nearby **** where she was due to meet *****. I was gone for no more than **. While I was away, a CEO issued the PCN. I cannot really fault them for this as I had left the car park.

I now understand that my assisting her probably does not exempt me from charges, but I would ask that on this occasion the authority might exercise discretion.

Other factors:
She is not sufficiently incapacitated to qualify for a BB, or if she is maybe this could be added.
Can she/you substantiate her being in the restaurant - even a snapshot from a diary or calendar would help.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375836 · Replies: 11 · Views: 315

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 08:17


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I can see a video which states Kings Road - Station Rd

and I can see a PCN which refers to The Green/Woodland Rd.

Eeenie, meenie, miney, mo.....?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375820 · Replies: 20 · Views: 398

hcandersen
Posted on: Yesterday, 07:16


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As I see it, there are two complementary orders, one restricting waiting except within designated parking places and one designating parking places.

The contravention relates to a parking place restriction therefore the first order is not relevant.

The contravention is for being within a parking place and not paying the required charge. You do not dispute this but are looking for exemptions from paying the charge. IMO, none exists because unloading is not listed, article 19 refers.

I cannot see any escape from the contravention itself.

As regards grounds for representation therefore, you appear to be left with the fourth (traffic order invalid) or sixth(penalty exceeded).

I have not seen any arguments regarding the traffic order ( put aside all Traffic Management Act matters, including guidance, because the TMA does not apply), so this leaves you with 'penalty exceeds...in the circumstances of the case'. Your argument in this regard is that the NTO does not comply with the mandatory requirements of the RTA and misleads and is therefore void and no penalty is payable. Specifically, paras. 1(2)(f), 2(3) and 4 of Schedule 6 to the Act:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/schedule/6

IMO, the effect of these paras. must be seen as a whole.

The authority have a duty to consider reps made within the 28-day period and may disregard reps made outside, they may issue a CC if reps are not made within the period or disregarded, they must bring the effect of these provisions to the owner's attention in the NTO and they must not mislead.

They haven't and they do. As written, the NTO clearly implies that reps made outside the 28-day period would not be considered. This is an incorrect statement and IMO the authority are acting ultra vires by stating that they would not comply with the requirements of the Act.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375808 · Replies: 18 · Views: 675

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 16:57


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OP, you are going to have to put pen to paper because phone calls won't work.

Before going into detail, please explain this comment

the lady at the end of the phone that the car was taxed at exactly 7.30m am that morning, the lady said she needs to check and within a minute or so it was confirmed the car was Taxed but they could not return the car that day as it
was too late in the day and would be returned on Monday. I was happy at the point and had no concerns.


Not return? To where? Did you agree that they could simply return the vehicle to a road (goodness knows what parking restrictions might have applied!!) and not even tell you where or when?????

IMO, if you didn't then DVLA would run a mile from this (as opposed to the 26.2 I ran last Sunday, but that's another story!).

IMO, do not even attempt to write to them until we've bottomed out this aspect.

IMO, once the vehicle was in their possession they were required to KEEP IT SAFE until you took possession and that they could be liable to you if they did not. But if you agreed something else??
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1375695 · Replies: 17 · Views: 496

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:55


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@PMB +1. You beat me to it.

Contravention did not occur.

I was parked on yellow markings, so I would ask the authority not to belabour this point in their response.

However, the markings do not indicate the box junction because as can clearly be seen they extend well beyond the junction which is a defined term within the regulations as follows:

Box junctions

11.—(1) Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.

(2) Subject to sub-paragraph (4) the marking when placed as a box junction within sub-paragraph (6)© of the definition of that expression conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of oncoming vehicles or other stationary vehicles beyond the box junction.

(6) For the purposes of this paragraph “box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the marking has been placed and which is—

(a)at a junction between two or more roads;

As can be seen, that part of the so-called YBJ in dispute is bounded on one side wholly by a kerb parallel to the centre-line of **. Therefore this could not and does not form part of the junction between *** and **** which, even given the most favourable interpretation possible by the authority, cannot start (and therefore have effect) before the beginning of the radiused part of this kerb.

I anticipate that challenging the validity of this part of the YBJ might be an argument with which officers are not familiar. It is therefore for this reason that I ask that this is referred to senior officers, preferably in legal services. I would consider a failure to do so and an unsupported presumption that simply the presence of yellow lines indicates the effect of this restriction to be prima facie evidence of a failure by the authority to give consideration to my representations.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375678 · Replies: 17 · Views: 289

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:33


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+1

OP, the WS doesn't allow or provide for you to argue the case or JUSTIFY your statement of truth, that you've signed to this effect is all that is needed.

Do not feel tempted now or ever (without our guidance) to step outside procedure.

Tick one box per WS ( made reps but did not receive a response from the authority..), sign and send to the address given i.e. Traffic Enforcement Centre.

This is an automatic process and your OfRs and CCs will be revoked/cancelled (provided you submit the WS in time) and then the ball's in the authority's court.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375668 · Replies: 31 · Views: 729

hcandersen
Posted on: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 14:39


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OP, you cannot presume the right to make reps on behalf of the recipient of the NTO, you must obtain written authorisation from them to act on their behalf in this matter.

As regards the 10-minute rule, the preconditions are that:
1. The location is a designated parking place;
2. The contravention relates to one of those specified in paras (a) to © of para. (1);
3. The time of contravention does not exceed 10 minutes from when permitted parking ended.

1. Yes.(but see below);
2. Yes, IMO this is the key part (my emphasis!). The now renumbered para. 4(1)(b) states (b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London'
3. Yes.

Not quite Britain's Got Talent 4 yeses, but all that's needed.

The guidance is incorrect IMO.
It is para. (1) which holds the key. Para. (1) of what?
Of the amended regulation 4.

What does it provide?

Imposition of penalty charges

4. Subject to the provisions of these Regulations a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle where there has been committed in relation to that vehicle—

(a)a parking contravention within paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 to the 2004 Act (contraventions relating to parking places in Greater London);
(b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London; or
©a parking contravention within paragraph 4 of that Schedule (parking contraventions outside Greater London) in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London.

NB. IMO if parliament had meant to EXCLUDE parking contraventions other than those relating to parking places then the amendment regs would have provided for 'contravention mentioned in subparagraphs (a) and ©', but they didn't. It was open to them, but they didn't. IMO, it is not open to the SoS or adjudicators to exclude contraventions in (b) from the scope of the 10-minute period.

Maybe I've misread it?

edit and 4(1)© isn't limited to parking place-related contraventions either!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375652 · Replies: 30 · Views: 1,204

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 20:54


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OP, we must see the evidence.

You have twice referred to your challenge and given us a summary, but what we want to see is the challenge itself.

For example, if you are now filling in gaps in your challenge i.e. showing us and describing in detail evidence which you only sketched out in your challenge, then why should the authority be blamed?

Evidence please, not statements.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375511 · Replies: 18 · Views: 318

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 20:44


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Not your photos, theirs!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375508 · Replies: 28 · Views: 632

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:35


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NTOs don't have unique references, it's the PCN in each case that counts, and it's mentioned.

Do not get hung up about how you posted, we do not recommend recorded delivery anyway, just first-class with free of charge proof of posting from the post office.

IMO, you are entitled to rely on what you've posted and your recollection and submit your witness statement.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375417 · Replies: 31 · Views: 729

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:22


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Their photos pl. GSV is of limited use.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375408 · Replies: 11 · Views: 250

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 14:15


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OP, you posted:

I understand that the street has restricted hours as detailed at the signpost when entering the street however I'd assume that these restrictions are for the bays on the whole street as all the bays had the same time restrictions on them. So Parking on a single yellow line where no restrictions are in place (no presents of a yellow sign) one would assume is ok as you are not parking in a bay or on a double yellow which you can not park on at any time of day.

And therein lies the problem i.e. your understanding which, given that your work apparently requires you to use a vehicle in London, is woefully wide of the mark.

CPZ signs regulate single yellow line (SYL) waiting restrictions only. Nothing to do with parking places or 24/7 double yellow lines.

The whole purpose of CPZ gateway signs is to dispense with the need to place separate signs on stretches of SYL.

You also posted:
From experience and understanding, Single yellow lines are open to park on between 6:30pm - 7am.

Noooooo. SYL are simply part-time waiting restrictions. With DYL, the markings indicate the period of the restriction i.e. 24/7, whereas with SYL adjacent signs or, in their absence, gateway signs indicate their effect. With respect, this is not an obscure area of parking law and questions on this always arise in the driving test theory paper.

You're either new to driving in London or very lucky not to have fallen foul of this before.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375369 · Replies: 7 · Views: 142

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 13:03


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Now you're being obtuse.

The payment system doesn't require the payer to input their VRM, it requires them to input the VRM in the PCN.

In most cases they're the same. But not in yours. But this doesn't change the principle, as you know.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375345 · Replies: 42 · Views: 1,246

hcandersen
Posted on: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 12:57


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OP, don't get hung up on the term 'formal representations', it might mislead you.

All you need to have done is to have communicated with the authority in any of the ways permitted in the NTO after the NTO was issued and before the end of the 28-day period for making representations. That communication must have referenced the PCN and in some way challenged the penalty.

You would not have had to write Formal Representations, or use their form or even state grounds as they are presented in the NTO.

To the best of your knowledge and belief did you?

Like the Home Office, we're not all expert record keepers and, given the period which has elapsed since the CC and the lack of follow up from the authority in a timely manner, you could be forgiven for thinking that the matter was dead and buried and cleansed your records. IMO, at adjudication the adj would firstly have to satisfy themselves that the authority were acting in a procedurally correct manner in resisting your appeal before worrying about whether you could present your reps. In any event, this would not prevent you from submitting an appeal under directions from the adjudicator. The Westminster case is a little misleading on this point. In that case the adj did not believe that the appellant had submitted reps but simply submitted a witness statement when the issue did not go away. In your case and in the event that the authority could not produce your reps, I think an adj would exercise discretion and not presume that you not having reps in evidence meant that none was made.

And pl sort out the separate PCNs, twin-tracking within a thread is nearly always a recipe for disaster.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375343 · Replies: 31 · Views: 729

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 21:01


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Probably your best option, well done. You have inevitably saved yourself time, grief and money.

But you're unhappy as you still feel it's somebody else's error.

Re-read this thread in a few months and see if your view is still the same.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375203 · Replies: 20 · Views: 545

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 16:22


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From: Woking
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Totally confused. Nothing like being drip-fed info!!

Phone them.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375110 · Replies: 27 · Views: 875

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 14:02


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Premature.

Slow down, you are getting ahead of yourself.

Stage 1 would normally be that the registered keeper would register their appeal. NOT write in at length as you have, but to get online and simply register. A simple box ticking exercise, 5 minutes tops. No detail, just that a NOR has been received - you've got the online code - and that an appeal is submitted under the following grounds - contravention did not occur; procedural impropriety. Elect for personal hearing and look at TPT's website for the most convenient adjudication venue (TPT are peripatetic).

In the narrative box, I would add that as regards the grounds of procedural impropriety these not only apply to the argument made in your representations, they also arise in consequence of the NOR which clearly and significantlly fails to comply with the simple but specific requirements of the Appeals Regulations. You would also add that although you are registering an appeal you will be writing to the authority in response to their NOR whose reasoning is unsound and conclusions untenable in an endeavour to give them the opportunity even at this late stage to cancel the PCN without the need to burden the adjudication system.



They're dead, and they're stupid, the problem is that they probably don't know either of these.

If you're happy to do this, I could draft a letter for the authority whose actions are nothing short of outrageous - nearly as bad as flagrantly parking on the pavement, so you're not on the side of the virtuous, it's just that this is a legal process.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375062 · Replies: 59 · Views: 1,686

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 13:43


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Progress and everything is going virtually as per the textbook.

You were served with a PCN, which remained unpaid and which was not successfully challenged;
You, as registered keeper, were served with a NTO for the full penalty;
You made reps in time;
The full penalty has now been reduced to the discount which should mean that a Notice of Rejection which re-offers the discount has been issued;
It must be posted first-class on the date of issue.....
So you should receive the NOR at the latest by 2 working days from today.

Do not pay, it would be premature. Wait for the NOR, the examination of which represents the last leg of our regular analysis.

...and take a screenshot of the current penalty!

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375058 · Replies: 27 · Views: 875

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 12:40


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From: Woking
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I can't tell whether this was made in accordance with the instructions in the NTO or to the correct address because the NTO is incomplete and what you've posted doesn't have an address or similar details.

How to confirm? Phone and ask if they have received your *** dated **** in regard to PCN **** and if so when do they anticipate replying.

No debate, don't argue or discuss, just ask.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1375039 · Replies: 27 · Views: 875

hcandersen
Posted on: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 07:59


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@MMV, I don't understand the point.

Made reps, NOR not received. No arguments to make until appeal and we're not there yet.

My worry is that based on their track record the more the OP is fed with what they might do, but only later in the process, the more they're likely to try and bring this forward because they're impatient and do not follow procedure.

There is a simple procedure and my message to the OP is stick to it. There are no arguments to make to or have with the authority, only the adjudicator ultimately.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1374939 · Replies: 13 · Views: 382

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