Clamping on private land - is it legal or not...., ...Pub car parks.... |
Clamping on private land - is it legal or not...., ...Pub car parks.... |
Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 11 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,077 |
Just a general question, I haven't been tempted to test it..... and I don't know what the state of play is these days.....
I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped. One location for example is The Two Rivers, Church Street, Staines - GSV Street View So, the question is - can they?? |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:32
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/section/54/enacted
S54 copy & paste into your browser -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:23
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#3
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
The short answer is no, they can't (legally). But as with "trespassers will be
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,535 Joined: 16 Jan 2009 From: Up north Member No.: 25,505 |
Of course they can clamp. Walk up, place a clamp on the vehicle. Clamped
Legally though they are not allowed to. -------------------- Bridges burnt, Rubicons crossed. Parthian shots delivered, but always with style
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 11:36
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped. I took this picture at a hotel near me (next to a beauty spot, no free parking nearby) 3 or so years ago: They never did, as far as I know. The signs have gone now. Hollow threats. |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 16:50
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Just a general question, I haven't been tempted to test it..... and I don't know what the state of play is these days..... I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped. One location for example is The Two Rivers, Church Street, Staines - GSV Street View So, the question is - can they?? No, not without committing an offence. There is an explicit exception for barrier systems, however, but those cannot really be used to encourage payment the same way clamping or towing does... --Churchmouse |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 17:42
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Of course they can clamp. Walk up, place a clamp on the vehicle. Clamped Legally though they are not allowed to. I would add that any person is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent crime, so my opinion is that it would be lawful to get an angle grinder and cut the clamp off. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 15:50
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 471 Joined: 11 May 2009 Member No.: 28,628 |
How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed.
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Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 17:31
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed. I suppose you could argue that the offence of illegally preventing the movement of the vehicle was on-going? Not sure the police would share that view... --Churchmouse |
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Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 12:05
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 542 Joined: 26 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,365 |
Nothing to stop someone putting signs up warning of clamping/towing in their car park, as long as they are empty threats, you could even signs threatening £150 parking fines - or at one extreme clamp your own car in your own car park as a deterrent to stop unwanted parkers.
If signs threatening clamping/fines/towing etc do the trick, then its better than letting a PPC run riot in your car park with your guests/friends and customers |
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Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 19:43
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed. The starting point is that immobilising a vehicle without lawful authority is an offence. Subject to certain exceptions, the general position is that: 54 Offence of immobilising etc. vehicles (1)A person commits an offence who, without lawful authority— (a)immobilises a motor vehicle by the attachment to the vehicle, or a part of it, of an immobilising device, or (b)moves, or restricts the movement of, such a vehicle by any means, intending to prevent or inhibit the removal of the vehicle by a person otherwise entitled to remove it. (2)The express or implied consent (whether or not legally binding) of a person otherwise entitled to remove the vehicle to the immobilisation, movement or restriction concerned is not lawful authority for the purposes of subsection (1). Restricting the movement of a vehicle is an ongoing action until the restriction on the movement ceases to be effective, so it's an ongoing offence. You can therefore use reasonable force to prevent the continuation of that offence. Further to that, a clamper will usually demand money in exchange for releasing a vehicle. Section 21 of the Theft Act 1968 provides that: 21 Blackmail. (1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief— (a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and (b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand. Saying "give me £150 or your car isn't moving" to me sounds very much like a demand with menaces, the stories of people being stuck in a car park in the middle of nowhere were often quoted as a reason for bringing in the ban. Before the Protection of Freedoms Act 2000 came in, a clamper could rely on the common law principle of distress damage feasant to argue that immobilising the vehicle was a proper means of reinforcing the demand for money (because it was a form of self-help that the courts had accepted as being valid). But now that the PoFA is in force, you cannot reasonably argue that an action which is in itself a criminal offence (immobilising the vehicle) is a proper means of reinforcing a demand for money. Hence section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 would enable a victim of such offences to use reasonable force to remove the clamp. The clamper could not prosecute the motorist for criminal damage, just as a burglar cannot prosecute a householder who arrests him and in the ensuing scuffle damages the burglar's clothing, phone or "tools of the trade" -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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