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£2000 fine for something I didn’t do!
hatebailifs
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 22:27
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A few days ago I purchased two cars from my brother to use as company cars for my company.

I parked one car in the driveway of my house and the other across the road.

DVLA are still processing the details of the ownership.

I haven’t yet got insurance on the cars but the insurance of my personal car allowed me to use this.

In the morning I woke to find both cars had been towed away. There were two notes in the letterbox from the bailiff explaining what had happened.

I called the bailiff that day to get more details. Apparently the cars last owner had many fines. I explained to him I’d purchased the cars.
He asked for a bunch of information like the insurance and log book.

My concern is DVLA may not have processed the information registering my name to the car prior to it being towed.

Also I’m using my own cars insurance to drive them. I hadn’t yet processed the vehicle for my company and therefore haven’t got insurance for them.

I know things sound suspicious but they’re not. This is what happened! Even the bailiff said it sounded a bit fishy.

Now I have to convince the bailiff they’re my cars. The fine of both cars reach £2000.00. This is for something that’s not even my fault!

How can I get myself out of this predicament?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
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post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 22:27
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Kieran_e1
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 22:46
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QUOTE (hatebailifs @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:27) *
A few days ago I purchased two cars from my brother to use as company cars for my company.

I parked one car in the driveway of my house and the other across the road.

DVLA are still processing the details of the ownership.

I haven’t yet got insurance on the cars but the insurance of my personal car allowed me to use this.

In the morning I woke to find both cars had been towed away. There were two notes in the letterbox from the bailiff explaining what had happened.

I called the bailiff that day to get more details. Apparently the cars last owner had many fines. I explained to him I’d purchased the cars.
He asked for a bunch of information like the insurance and log book.

My concern is DVLA may not have processed the information registering my name to the car prior to it being towed.

Also I’m using my own cars insurance to drive them. I hadn’t yet processed the vehicle for my company and therefore haven’t got insurance for them.

I know things sound suspicious but they’re not. This is what happened! Even the bailiff said it sounded a bit fishy.

Now I have to convince the bailiff they’re my cars. The fine of both cars reach £2000.00. This is for something that’s not even my fault!

How can I get myself out of this predicament?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

presumably you have a receipt for the purchase, a copy of the advert?
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DancingDad
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 22:55
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Neglecting for the moment any "proof" that the bailiffs may be asking for, there are few documents that must be in place.

Firstly are warrants for outstanding debts on a person...presumably your brother. These allow them to seize his goods but not yours.
Second is proof that you or your company had bought the cars. This would be in the form of a bill of sale, transfer of funds so company cheque record/bank statement, receipt for payment etc. DVLA records only show the registered keeper, not the owner so mute point but one the bailiffs will harp on about.
Insurance... as long as they are insured while on public roads, irrelevant. As you say, many insurance policies cover 3rd party (legal minimum) for the policy holder driving other cars.

Also find out which council(s) have employed the bailiffs. They, not the bailiffs are ultimately responsible if goods have been seized unlawfully so get onto them.
And put things in writing to all, don't rely on phone calls.
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peterguk
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 22:59
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QUOTE (hatebailifs @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:27) *
I haven’t yet got insurance on the cars but the insurance of my personal car allowed me to use this.


Slightly OT, but are you sure? Unusual for a personal car ins. policy to insure other vehicles belonging to policy holder.


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«THÖMÅS®©™»
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:20
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In my personal opinion, if this happened to me, I would call up the bailiffs, state the vehicles belong to my or my company and demand thier return or face legal action in the courts.

From what you have said and DancingDad's reply to you regarding unlawful seizure, it appears that the vehicles have been stolen. Theft is a criminal offence and is a police matter, so call them and tell them your cars have been stolen and give them the registration numbers and tell them which bailiffs have stolen them.

Don't take my advice at face value, please wait for someone who knows this stuff to confirm or give other/similar advice to mine above. The above however is what I would do in this situation.
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clark_kent
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:38
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QUOTE (hatebailifs @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:27) *
I know things sound suspicious but they’re not. This is what happened! Even the bailiff said it sounded a bit fishy.



Indeed it does, buying two cars off your brother just before the baliff arrives does sound rather dubious.
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peterguk
post Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:50
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:55) *
As you say, many insurance policies cover 3rd party (legal minimum) for the policy holder driving other cars.


As long as they are not registered to the policy holder.

Else i'd insure a Mini and get my Ferrari insured for nothing.


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Enceladus
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 00:02
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 00:50) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:55) *
As you say, many insurance policies cover 3rd party (legal minimum) for the policy holder driving other cars.


As long as they are not registered to the policy holder.

Else i'd insure a Mini and get my Ferrari insured for nothing.

As long as the vehicles are otherwise insured.
You might well find the Ferrari is cheaper to insure than the Mini.

What was the value of each car?

This post has been edited by Enceladus: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 08:56
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localdriver
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 06:24
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QUOTE («THÖMÅS®©™» @ Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 00:20) *
From what you have said and DancingDad's reply to you regarding unlawful seizure, it appears that the vehicles have been stolen.


It may be an unlawful seizure, but not theft - s.2(1)(a), Theft Act 1988.

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hcandersen
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 07:40
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Just for info:
IMO, the cars are not insured and therefore you are not insured to drive them. As you say you own the vehicles, then your brother (in whose name the vehicles were previously insured?) has no insurable interest in them and therefore any insurance he had in place has lapsed. There is a distinction between a driver being insured for third party risks while driving and the owner carrying insurance.
You have not stated clearly who the previous owner(s) was. Please clarify. I'm sure we've all seen the TV series The Sheriffs are Coming and examples of assets changing ownership. As posted above, you need to demonstrate that proper consideration was exchanged for these vehicles. If you can and if you are the legal owner, then you can pursue the bailiffs. But if you can't, then they're not yours and it's the 'previous owner's' task, assuming the warrant(s) are in their name(s).

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 07:40
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dacouc
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 16:25
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QUOTE (Enceladus @ Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 01:02) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 00:50) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 18 Jul 2014 - 23:55) *
As you say, many insurance policies cover 3rd party (legal minimum) for the policy holder driving other cars.


As long as they are not registered to the policy holder.

Else i'd insure a Mini and get my Ferrari insured for nothing.

As long as the vehicles are otherwise insured.
You might well find the Ferrari is cheaper to insure than the Mini.

What was the value of each car?


There are plenty of Insurers who don't require the car being driven under the driving other cars extension to hold it's own Insurance, although in such circumstances the registered keeper would be breaching the continuous insurance law
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Neil B
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 16:33
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I think it's been asked but I'll try again --
Who exactly was responsible for the PCNs?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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sgtdixie
post Sat, 19 Jul 2014 - 17:43
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Just how long after buying them were they seized.
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homeruk
post Mon, 21 Jul 2014 - 20:29
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Op hasn't been back since posting the original post on Friday

Guess he doesn't want your help afterall
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clark_kent
post Mon, 21 Jul 2014 - 20:31
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QUOTE (homeruk @ Mon, 21 Jul 2014 - 21:29) *
Op hasn't been back since posting the original post on Friday

Guess he doesn't want your help afterall



Maybe he has sold his computer to his brother to stop it being seized! laugh.gif
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