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Contravention 01 in Chingford mount rd E4, PCN increases didn’t Received original fine or yellow pcn
willy101
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 15:48
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Hi attached is the PCN I received today, contravention 01 parked in a restricted st during prescribed hrs
It was on 05/12/2018 at 13:25:05
On letter it clearly says lack of photographic evidence doesn’t invalidate pcn

I remember on this day I parked for few minutes came back quickly to see officer was about to issue ticket I said I’m going and start engine immediately and drove off I saw him printing off ticket and litterally trying to attached on my window without any yellow envelope but I drove off and I think that pcn was lost or I don’t know what happen
But now I got this , please help if there’s any suggestion
https://tinypng.com/web/output/6zxfyby6zxt8...9328C46CD8.jpeg

Thanks
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post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 15:48
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cp8759
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 20:03
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Well the CEO or someone in the back office is a moron:









So the CEO knows the vehicle was driven away and for some bizarre reason took a picture of the PCN, helpfully there's roughly a 3:30 minute gap between the last photo of the car and the photo of the PCN, this is consistent with your version of events that the PCN was not served (normally the CEO would take a picture of the PCN in the envelope & attached to the car). The council should have sent you a section 10 Penalty Charge Notice, which they can do in these circumstances, instead they have unlawfully issued a Notice to Owner.

How long do you recon you were parked for, and more importantly why where you parked there?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 21:18
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The PCN was issued at 13.26 last photo of car 13.25.06 but the pic of PCN proves it was not served and a reg 10 should have been effected.

Driving off does not absolve you of responsibility for a PCN. But nor does it allow the council not to follow the correct procedure

See this case

2160320182

The Appellant has attended his appeal I find him to be an honest, convincing and consistent witness I believe what he tells me.
In this case the Enforcement Authority's case is that the Civil Enforcement Officer had begun to prepare a Penalty Charge Notice for service in accordance with regulation 9, but the Civil Enforcement Officer was prevented from serving it because the vehicle concerned was driven away.
In these circumstances the Penalty Charge Notice may now be served by post pursuant to regulation 10(1) of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007.
The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway when in Clapton Common on 27 May 2016 at 14.58.
The Appellant's case is that he was driving slowly into a car park and that the Civil Enforcement Officer made no attempt to issue or serve the Penalty Charge Notice.
I have considered the evidence in this appeal and I find that this Penalty Charge Notice cannot be upheld for the following reasons:
First, I have considered the Civil Enforcement Officer's evidence, and I find it to be no more (at the most) than just the observation of a parking contravention, and that no contravention had occurred.
Second, I find the Appellant’s evidence to be stronger than that of the Authority’s.
Third, the parties are referred to regulation 10(2) of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007, which reads as follows;
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1) ©, civil enforcement officer who observes conduct which appears to constitute a parking contravention shall not thereby be taken to have begun to prepare a penalty charge notice.
Accordingly, I find that circumstances had not arisen that would have entitled the Civil Enforcement Officer to issue the Appellant's vehicle with a Penalty Charge Notice. Indeed, I am not satisfied that the Appellant's vehicle was ever parked on the footway.
The appeal is allowed.
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cp8759
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 21:56
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For the avoidance of doubt, I think you can almost certainly win because the council did not follow the proper procedure, however if you can tell us something about why you were there and how long for, we might be able to add another angle to your case.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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willy101
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 22:22
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 22:56) *
For the avoidance of doubt, I think you can almost certainly win because the council did not follow the proper procedure, however if you can tell us something about why you were there and how long for, we might be able to add another angle to your case.

Many thanks for detailed response much appreciated
I dont know if I should’ve parked there on that time all
I saw couple of cars been parked here so I parked in front and went in Postoffice I been looking outside but no Parking attendant was there I possibly spent abt 5-10 minutes and came out and run towards my car as previous cars were moved out and parking attendant was just about to issue I said I just been in and I’m now out but he ignored and start doing even faster so I quickly started and drove off .
So any wording to challenge this pls ,

Thanks
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cp8759
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 13:01
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I don't think you can argue with the contravention, as going to the post office would not normally qualify for the loading exemption. Here's the wording you can use:

---------
Dear Sir or Madam,

Formal representations against PCN FR41846174

I challenge the validity of the Notice to Owner on the basis that the original regulation 9A PCN was never served. I remember on the day in question I had parked for few minutes and upon returning to my vehicle, I saw the CEO near my car so I quickly jumped in and drove off. I did see the CEO with a printed ticket and he attempted to attach it to the vehicle as I was moving off, he did so without even placing it in a yellow envelope, but I drove off before he was able to do so.

Upon reviewing the photos on your website, there are two photos of my car, one photo of the sign and one photo of the PCN, without the yellow envelope, being held in the CEO's hand. The last photo of my car was taken at 13:25:06 and the photo of the PCN was taken at 13:28:43, over three and a half minutes later. Clearly if my car had been at the scene, the CEO would have attached the PCN to the windscreen in the normal way and taken a photo of the PCN after it had been served, there is no reason why in the normal course of events, a CEO would take a photo of the front of the PCN in the manner that CEO WF545 did here.

In the circumstances the council had a power, under regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, to serve a postal PCN, this would have preserved the option of paying the discounted penalty. Instead the council has served a Notice to Owner under regulation 19 but it did so without lawful authority. This is because regulation 19 provides that a Notice to Owner can only be served where "a penalty charge notice has been served with respect to a vehicle under regulation 9 o 9A", and that condition is not met in this case.

I do not know why the council served a Notice to Owner rather than a regulation 10 PCN and I accept I should regard myself as fortunate in all the circumstances. However the unlawful service of a Notice to Owner is a procedural impropriety which means that the penalty charge must be cancelled.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:59
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OP, pl just confirm that you received the PCN ....6174 in the post.

Was there a covering letter?

Your tinypics link in post #1 comes up blank for me so I don't know whether you have a NTO or what.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 15:01
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cp8759
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 19:40
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:59) *
Your tinypics link in post #1 comes up blank for me so I don't know whether you have a NTO or what.

The link has stopped working but I did check it at initially and it is a section 19 NtO, with the standard wording along the lines of "PCN was served but hasn't been paid so full amount now due..."

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 19:41


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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willy101
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 20:50
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:01) *
I don't think you can argue with the contravention, as going to the post office would not normally qualify for the loading exemption. Here's the wording you can use:

---------
Dear Sir or Madam,

Formal representations against PCN FR41846174

I challenge the validity of the Notice to Owner on the basis that the original regulation 9A PCN was never served. I remember on the day in question I had parked for few minutes and upon returning to my vehicle, I saw the CEO near my car so I quickly jumped in and drove off. I did see the CEO with a printed ticket and he attempted to attach it to the vehicle as I was moving off, he did so without even placing it in a yellow envelope, but I drove off before he was able to do so.

Upon reviewing the photos on your website, there are two photos of my car, one photo of the sign and one photo of the PCN, without the yellow envelope, being held in the CEO's hand. The last photo of my car was taken at 13:25:06 and the photo of the PCN was taken at 13:28:43, over three and a half minutes later. Clearly if my car had been at the scene, the CEO would have attached the PCN to the windscreen in the normal way and taken a photo of the PCN after it had been served, there is no reason why in the normal course of events, a CEO would take a photo of the front of the PCN in the manner that CEO WF545 did here.

In the circumstances the council had a power, under regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, to serve a postal PCN, this would have preserved the option of paying the discounted penalty. Instead the council has served a Notice to Owner under regulation 19 but it did so without lawful authority. This is because regulation 19 provides that a Notice to Owner can only be served where "a penalty charge notice has been served with respect to a vehicle under regulation 9 o 9A", and that condition is not met in this case.

I do not know why the council served a Notice to Owner rather than a regulation 10 PCN and I accept I should regard myself as fortunate in all the circumstances. However the unlawful service of a Notice to Owner is a procedural impropriety which means that the penalty charge must be cancelled.


Much appreciated your kind help
I have forwarded to them let’s c , my only worry they might accept their fault of sending extended fine , and issue me the basic £65 fine instead ?
Thanks
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cp8759
post Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 21:06
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QUOTE (willy101 @ Sun, 13 Jan 2019 - 20:50) *
...my only worry they might accept their fault of sending extended fine , and issue me the basic £65 fine instead ?

They can't do that, they only get one chance to issue the penalty. If they mess up (as they have done here), it's game over.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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willy101
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 11:06
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Dear Sir

Many thanks for your kind Help I have received the letter from WF to waives the fine off, much appreciated your help in this regards




quote name='cp8759' date='Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 14:01' post='1450184']
I don't think you can argue with the contravention, as going to the post office would not normally qualify for the loading exemption. Here's the wording you can use:

---------
Dear Sir or Madam,

Formal representations against PCN FR41846174

I challenge the validity of the Notice to Owner on the basis that the original regulation 9A PCN was never served. I remember on the day in question I had parked for few minutes and upon returning to my vehicle, I saw the CEO near my car so I quickly jumped in and drove off. I did see the CEO with a printed ticket and he attempted to attach it to the vehicle as I was moving off, he did so without even placing it in a yellow envelope, but I drove off before he was able to do so.

Upon reviewing the photos on your website, there are two photos of my car, one photo of the sign and one photo of the PCN, without the yellow envelope, being held in the CEO's hand. The last photo of my car was taken at 13:25:06 and the photo of the PCN was taken at 13:28:43, over three and a half minutes later. Clearly if my car had been at the scene, the CEO would have attached the PCN to the windscreen in the normal way and taken a photo of the PCN after it had been served, there is no reason why in the normal course of events, a CEO would take a photo of the front of the PCN in the manner that CEO WF545 did here.

In the circumstances the council had a power, under regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007, to serve a postal PCN, this would have preserved the option of paying the discounted penalty. Instead the council has served a Notice to Owner under regulation 19 but it did so without lawful authority. This is because regulation 19 provides that a Notice to Owner can only be served where "a penalty charge notice has been served with respect to a vehicle under regulation 9 o 9A", and that condition is not met in this case.

I do not know why the council served a Notice to Owner rather than a regulation 10 PCN and I accept I should regard myself as fortunate in all the circumstances. However the unlawful service of a Notice to Owner is a procedural impropriety which means that the penalty charge must be cancelled.
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