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VCS, office car park, no valid permit
gac
post Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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The driver has a parking "document" (which states it is not a PCN) from VCS which was left on their windscreen after the car was parked in the car park of a currently unoccupied office building on a business park. The "offence" is "Not displaying a valid permit" but there are currently no occupants to get a permit from, and no property owners contact details, only the letting agents.

Anything the driver/keeper can do here to appeal? It's the standard £60 within 14 days, £100 otherwise. There is no NtK yet there was just a red square piece of paper left on the car with a reference number on the back to look at the offence online, and then the rest follows in the post in a day or so. When it arrives, I'll redact and upload if required.

Thanks for any pointers.

This post has been edited by gac: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 11:28
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post Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:14
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Yes, it is a complete waste of time
Did they comnet on keeper liability at all?
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gac
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 13:49
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:14) *
Yes, it is a complete waste of time
Did they comnet on keeper liability at all?

Only to point out that I had failed to name the driver, and therefore it is important that they make me aware that in this case they may pursue the RK, per Schedule 4 of POFA. They also say in this letter that "the notice sent to you clearly states" a whole bunch of text including explaining the fact that the Notice is deemed to have been received on the second working day after the Issue Date. So I need to find the original notice over the weekend and compare what the dispute rejection says with what the Notice actually says, since I believe they don't match (and this formed a second point of the dispute which they haven't commented on).
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 13:51
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Meaning they claim they are compliant. Otherwise Schedule 4 is irrelevant to them.
Yes of course you need ot find the NtK toensure you are right on this!
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gac
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 18:32
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Now received a letter saying it's now been passed to the debt management team - is this one definitely going to end up in court at this point?
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Notahappykid
post Sat, 9 Feb 2019 - 19:14
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Hi gac,

I’m really interested in this sign as it is identical to the signage in the permit holder car park that my car was parked in. Also VCS. I have county court business centre papers though as all the prior correspondence was sent to my old address and I’ve not received any of them. Im currently Looking at getting my defence together and am hopeful to hear that the sign only seems to direct the terms at permit holders. ( my car was parked with permission of the permit holder) sorry not hijackingbyour post I’m just interested in following it. Any other info you get re the signage inadequacy, or otherwise, please post:-)
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MatchlessG80
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 13:41
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'is this one definitely going to end up in court at this point?'

Perhaps, but will probably be a while getting to that point. Got one of these tickets in April last year based on a very similar sign to yours (probably identical). This was followed by a 'Demand for payment' in August 2018, then a 'Final Demand' later in August 2018, and just last week another 'Demand for payment'. In order to be reasonable, I responded to their 'Final Demand' as if it were a letter before claim denying the debt and indicating that they should take it to court or go away. No response to that, apart from the latest 'Demand for payment' and it looks like the letter cycle has started again! No plans to move house during the next 5 years so I can wait this one out a bit longer. Do keep us informed as it looks like there others who are in a similar position.
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gac
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 13:51
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I'm planning on not responding to anything before an official "letter before county court" (so planning to ignore "Demand for Payment" and "Final Demand" from VCS themselves).

One thing that hopefully won't trip me up is the post above from Notahappykid - if VCS sent some correspondence to their old address and then suddenly got the right address for the county court paperwork, that implies that they looked up the keeper details a second time and got different details. I've now traded in the car, so if they do the same thing, there's every chance that I may not receive some of the paperwork as it may go to the new keeper...I didn't think there would be a problem doing that as they would just keep writing to me at the address they had on file, but maybe that's not right?
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Notahappykid
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 15:55
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Hi gac,

In response to your post above just to clarify for your info - my CCBC claim form was also sent to my old address, i only became to receive it because my parents live on the same street as my old address and this was posted through their door in error (same surname as me). Otherwise i woudn't have have had a clue it even existed.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 07:56
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They DO NOT get to lookup keeper details a second time.
They just use a trace serviec. Takes five minutes.
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Notahappykid
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 19:19
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 07:56) *
They DO NOT get to lookup keeper details a second time.
They just use a trace serviec. Takes five minutes.


What’s a trace service please?
I did read somewhere (cant remember where though) that if no reply from notices/demands they need to make reasonable efforts to confirm they are sending to the correct address. (In case dvla hols an old address - which they did in my case).
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 10:56
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Something that traces people...
Uses credit checks (that dont show on reports), checks of electroal register etc. Its a fairly obvious answer...

Yes, if they KNEW or SHOUDL HAVE KNOWn the address was incorrect they are not able to ensure "good service" of the claim form. WIthout good service a set aside is automatic.
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gac
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 18:41
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QUOTE (Notahappykid @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 15:55) *
Hi gac,

In response to your post above just to clarify for your info - my CCBC claim form was also sent to my old address, i only became to receive it because my parents live on the same street as my old address and this was posted through their door in error (same surname as me). Otherwise i woudn't have have had a clue it even existed.

That makes sense, and makes me feel better about it.

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 07:56) *
They DO NOT get to lookup keeper details a second time.
They just use a trace serviec. Takes five minutes.

That wasn't my concern, since I haven't moved, so my address is still valid and there's no one to trace. What bothered me was that in the case above, it _seemed_ that they had looked the details up again and started writing to the new address. If they did that with my car, they would be writing to someone who didn't even own the car at the time of the notice. Not my problem but I'd hate for someone else to eventually get a red-letter final demand or court papers that they felt pressured to pay.

But as above, that does not happen, and did not happen, so nothing to worry about and nothing further to discuss - and more importantly, I've learnt something new in the process smile.gif
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