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A request for £60 from PCS
waldridgekaiser
post Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 12:53
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Hi folks,
I have just been given the nice letter attached inviting me to pay £60 for parking outside of an undetectable parking bay in Newcastle Upon Tyne.
The driver did the reasonable thing and parked in line with the other cars around. The driver even paid for two hours and did not exceed that time.

Lets say the driver did overlap into another bay- I honestly did not think that the driver did- I'd pay for two hours in that bay too for the driver. I try to be reasonable! The young lady in the adjoining bay seemed to be in her car for the full time the driver was away from my car.

I've been to POPLA before successfully, I've ignored some crooks successfully prior to that. However I am mindful that responses change over time according to previous episodes that people have experienced.

Are PCS keen of a summons?

Have I entered a contract by the driver paying for a ticket?

Shall I ask for evidence of the bays and where the driver parked?

Shall I challenge it?

Or, shall I ignore?

Advice gratefully accepted.

WK

This post has been edited by waldridgekaiser: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 18:29
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post Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 12:53
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ostell
post Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 13:13
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Ignore is not a good plan these days. If you did not see a bay then that is a good reason to appeal. Was there a windscreen ticket? If not did you get the letter within 14 days? Is it your own car or a lease car? What name was on any parking notices? Was it LDK Security Ltd or something else?

Didn't know Worswick St bus station was no longer.
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 14:41
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 14:13) *
Ignore is not a good plan these days. If you did not see a bay then that is a good reason to appeal. Was there a windscreen ticket? If not did you get the letter within 14 days? Is it your own car or a lease car? What name was on any parking notices? Was it LDK Security Ltd or something else?

Didn't know Worswick St bus station was no longer.

Yeah, it's all marked bays right now. I must check it out next time I'm there, maybe tomorrow.

There's a payment machine there too.
Did you actually make a payment to park?


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The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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waldridgekaiser
post Sat, 25 Jul 2015 - 15:41
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Hi folks, thank you for the replies-

I didn't see any clear bay markings down the bottom end where the driver parked- the driver stayed out of the main thoroughfare and allowed entry/ exit to the site.
There was no windscreen ticket.
The letter arrived today- 25th and we were there on 18th.
It is my own car.
The name on the signs- I think it was LDK. There were LDK staff present in a van and they didn't tell me to move...
The driver did pay to park, I'll see if I've got the ticket.


As for the bus station parking layout- Cars park in the old bus bays (two in line) and on the old bus stands (two in line again) and also side by side on the back wall- it is a rotten old dog of a spot. It stinks, but it is fairly central and £1 an hour seems reasonable enough.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.97302,-1....3312!8i6656

I've added the above link to google street view to illustrate the 'markings' for the designated bays... The driver parked against the back wall along with several other vehicles.

This post has been edited by waldridgekaiser: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 18:31
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emanresu
post Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 04:51
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LDK are BPA members so soft appeal to get POPLA code and hard appeal at POPLA. Same as the PE ticket you had.

If you want to sort it at first appeal, ask them to confirm if the £100 is a core contractual term for which they pay VAT or a gratuitous licence for which GPEOL is recoverable. In addition they should provide a copy of either their ownership of the site or a contract with the owner showing their rights to issue either contracts or licences. Failure to provide evidence of authority to be on that site will result in a complaint to Trading Standards for fraudulent claims.
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waldridgekaiser
post Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 09:08
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Thank you Emanresu.

I intend to write to LDK to appeal this- on the grounds that I had parked reasonably in a poorly maintained car park with indistinct bays and that I feel a £60 or £100 request as a result is unreasonable. I will ask for a POPLA code.

When making the POPLA appeal I shall ask:

If the £100 is a core contractual term for which they pay VAT or a gratuitous licence for which GPEOL is recoverable.
Will they provide a copy of either their ownership of the site or a contract with the owner showing their rights to issue either contracts or licences. I will prompt them to say failure to provide evidence of authority to be on that site will result in a complaint to Trading Standards for fraudulent claims.

Have I got that correct? Apologies for checking- I am far from insightful on this whole thing!
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Dennis Basher
post Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 09:37
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QUOTE (waldridgekaiser @ Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 10:08) *
I intend to write to LDK to appeal this- on the grounds that I had parked reasonably.......

LDK's Notice to Keeper does not comply with POFA 2012 meaning that they have forfeited any right to hold the keeper liable. This will be a good enough reason for your POPLA appeal to succeed - so long as the driver has not been identified.

It's important that you appeal as keeper rather than as the driver. Write your appeal in the third person e.g. "the driver had parked reasonably etc."

This post has been edited by Dennis Basher: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 09:37
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waldridgekaiser
post Sun, 26 Jul 2015 - 17:02
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Thank you, I shall do exactly that!
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waldridgekaiser
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 10:44
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My letter:

Reg No:
Ref no:

Dear Sir/ Madam,
thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above motor vehicle. It is my understanding that on the day in question, the driver parked in a reasonable manner according to the other cars around the poorly marked venue.
Two members of LDK staff were present when the driver bought the parking ticket and they did not indicate at the time to the driver that the car may have been outside of what they considered a designated bay.
The markings at the car park are close to non-existent.
I have yet to see any evidence from yourselves that the driver left the vehicle "NOT PARKED WHOLLY WITHIN BAY".
The driver parked in a reasonable manner, causing no restraint of trade for yourselves and the £60/ £100 request sent to me is wholly disproportionate and unreasonable.

If this appeal happens to be unsuccessful, I would welcome a POPLA code.

Kind Regards,

me!

This post has been edited by waldridgekaiser: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 10:46
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Lynnzer
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 14:29
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QUOTE (waldridgekaiser @ Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 11:44) *
My letter:

Reg No:
Ref no:

Dear Sir/ Madam,
thank you for your recent correspondence regarding the above motor vehicle. It is my understanding that on the day in question, the driver parked in a reasonable manner according to the other cars around the poorly marked venue.
Two members of LDK staff were present when the driver bought the parking ticket and they did not indicate at the time to the driver that the car may have been outside of what they considered a designated bay.
Their failure to identify any problem means that they renegaed on their responsibility to mitigate any losses to yourself, in line with the findings of District Judge McIlwaine at Hull County Court, for case of Vehicle Control Services v Cuthbertson.
QUOTE
The markings at the car park are close to non-existent.
I have yet to see any evidence from yourselves that the driver left the vehicle "NOT PARKED WHOLLY WITHIN BAY".
The driver parked in a reasonable manner, causing no restraint of trade for yourselves and the £60/ £100 request sent to me is wholly disproportionate and unreasonable.

If this appeal happens to be unsuccessful, I would welcome a POPLA code.

Kind Regards,

me!



--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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waldridgekaiser
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 18:26
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Thanks Lynnzer,
shall I include that in my letter? I didn't know that previous case existed.

Ta,
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Lynnzer
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 20:22
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QUOTE (waldridgekaiser @ Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 19:26) *
Thanks Lynnzer,
shall I include that in my letter? I didn't know that previous case existed.

Ta,

By all means. Also that since you paid for the time there was no loss occasioned. If you have proof of payment all the better.

I suppose you know about the spaces in front of the old Fire Station?
They are (for now) free as there's no ticket machines, nor are they part of the local council's authority or marked for exclusion of any sort. You gotta be quick to get one though.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 20:25


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waldridgekaiser
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 20:29
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I saw cars there, but I thought the old markings outside may still apply! Will check it out on Wednesday. Thanks again.
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Lynnzer
post Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 20:39
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QUOTE (waldridgekaiser @ Mon, 27 Jul 2015 - 21:29) *
I saw cars there, but I thought the old markings outside may still apply! Will check it out on Wednesday. Thanks again.

It's the 1st place I make for in Newcastle. The 2nd place is alongide the Plummer Tower. Google Street View shows it with a chain barrier but it's not there any longer.


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waldridgekaiser
post Fri, 31 Jul 2015 - 13:33
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Appeal lodged online. I await their reply.
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waldridgekaiser
post Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 15:20
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The reply via email (I had asked for a paper copy reply):

Thank you for your email regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

I have carefully reviewed the case and have considered the points that you raised. Unfortunately, I cannot cancel the PCN and it is still payable. I have explained my findings in more detail below.

My findings

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. As these terms were breached on the date in question, a PCN was correctly and legitimately issued. The terms and conditions were broken by parking on private land outside of a marked bay.
I appreciate the circumstances alluded to within the correspondence; however, in the interests of fairness to all motorists, our company must adopt a consistent approach when enforcing Parking Charge Notices and therefore I am unable to cancel the PCN.

I attach photographic evidence taken at the time of the parking contravention.

What you need to do now

You now have three options to choose from:

Pay the PCN at the prevailing sum of £60.00 by 28th August 2015. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the amount outstanding will rise to £100.00 and will need to be paid by 11th September 2015.

Payment can be made online or by phone. Go to www.parkingcsl.co.uk or phone 0208 528 4122. You can find full details of how to pay on the PCN issued to the vehicle and/or on the letter(s) sent if applicable.

Make an appeal to POPLA (Independent Appeals Service) by completing the provided appeal form or by making an appeal online at www.popla.org.uk (verification code: xxxxxxxxx). The only grounds for making an appeal are highlighted within the form provided and to be considered the appeal must be received by POPLA within 28 days of the date of this correspondence. Please note that if you opt to appeal to POPLA and the appeal is unsuccessful you will be only able to settle the PCN at the full amount of £100.00.

If you choose to not make payment or appeal, the amount outstanding may be sought via a debt recovery company and/or court action where further costs may be incurred as a result.

Payment Methods

Online Payment: www.parkingcsl.co.uk
Telephone Payment: RING 0208 528 4122
Bank Transfer: Quote your reference number to – Parking Collection Services
Royal Bank of Scotland, Sort code 16-00-01, Account number 20973851
Cheques / Postal Orders: Should be posted to the address below, made payable to Parking Collection Services. Please write your reference number on the back.



Kind Regards

Anna Jones
Collections Manager
Parking Collection Services
P.O. Box 271
Ashton Under Lyne
OL6 0DL
www.parkingcsl.co.uk
T: 0208 528 4122
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freddy1
post Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 15:57
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umm , when you made your appeal was it to LDK or PCS , both are scum , but one is on 10%

I suspect , as per the norm , that LDK never actually saw your appeal


edit:

you have never actually received a NTK from LDK ?



This post has been edited by freddy1: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 16:01
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waldridgekaiser
post Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 16:03
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Ta Freddy1,

I made the appeal online via www.parkingcsl.co.uk/appeals

Looks like an appeal to POPLA. I need to upload the photos, but I'll have to do that through a proxy site as my attachments allowance is just about full.

I've not had a Notice To Keeper from LDK, simply two requests through the post from PCS 23rd & 28th of July.

This post has been edited by waldridgekaiser: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 16:07
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freddy1
post Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 16:08
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yup the appeal was to a debt collection company , not to LDK , did you honestly think that a debt collection company , who knew non of the facts was going to say , "thank you , case dropped!"

PSC are registered with there sister Co (DR+) with the BPA , for debt recovery , NOT FOR PARKING , and as such , they have got involved before you were offered an appeal or POPLA code

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waldridgekaiser
post Fri, 14 Aug 2015 - 16:25
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To be honest I didn't think too much other than ask for advice on Pepipoo and follow that advice!

I know when I'm out of my depth.

I assume it is now time to appeal to POPLA on some of the following grounds:

1- the charge is excessive
2- I was not served with an NTK- the process has been incorrectly followed
3- I refuse to name the driver- there has been no request to name the driver
4- any other advice?

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