Unloading Claim Rejected |
Unloading Claim Rejected |
Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:24
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
Hi All,
One of our vans got ticketed whilst unloading on non-restricted double yellow lines. We appealed with supporting evidence but this got rejected because the van was near a junction. Can anyone see anything incorrect about the council's letter before we pay? Cheers. |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:24
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 07:55
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Post up all the documents, every page and a Streetview location
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:07
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Pretty certain this is nonsense as we've seen with recent cases of Crawley going after BB holders in this way. Obstruction can be pursued by police but not by council under the yellow line parking order. If they want to ban loading there then they can be they haven't, presumably.
As per above post PCN, all your challenge and their rejection, council pics, and a google street view. Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:07 |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:32
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
Cheers guys,
I haven't got the copy of my first appeal to the council, but it basically stated that i was unloading and that there were no unloading restrictions in force. I also provided a job sheet supporting the unloading. Here is the ticket, council picture and GSV : https://www.instantstreetview.com/@50.37209....46h,-23.49p,1z |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:46
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Observation time was 5 mins which further suggests that the corner location is nonsense - did driver see the CEO?
Sounds to me like you left van to attend to leak? Was van moved after loading? They could have rejected owing to no loading going on but may well have shot themselves in the foot with the obstruction. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 08:46 |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:05
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
What a crock of bull. The exemption applies end off. If you are guilty of an offence of causing an obstruction it is a police matter it does not nullify any exemption
Please post all the docs on an external hosting site such as imgur to make them easier to read. I cannot see you losing this and can see you getting costs awarded if the appeal is well drafted -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:13
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
OP has put on external PMB - just click on them.
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:19
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
OP has put on external PMB - just click on them. Ok but I would like to see ALL of the rejection, redacted of only personal detail -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 09:43
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 10:03
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Send this now To Mr Simpson
Dear Mr Simpson reference PCN number xxxxxxxxxx Thank you for your letter dated the 24th of May 2019 rejecting my challenge. You state that as I was unloading near to a junction that the TMA 2004 and the TSRGD 2016 disallows the exemption afforded to parking on a double yellow line for the purposes of loading/unloading. In order that I may consider my position, please inform me of the relevant provision in both sets of regulations that sets out this revocation of the exemption in such circumstances. Regards -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 10:30
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
Thank you so much!
Email sent! |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:14
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Have you actually sent it?
If not, then wait. |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:20
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
yeh i emailed it straight away.
why whats up? |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 11:58
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,155 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
A matter of preference.
I would have included.. ..your letter dated *** in which you acknowledge that I was engaged in loading etc. which is an exemption as regards the prevailing traffic order but that you have not accepted my representations for one or more of the following reasons: 1. The TMA and TSRGD 2016 disapply the exemption when a vehicle is parked 'on or near a pedestrian crossing or junction' 2. 'The vehicle is not causing an obstruction.... ..and so on.. Draw out and shine the spotlight on their stupidity. It's all grist to the adjudicator's mill which would grind Mr Simpson. They'd be lucky to escape without an award of costs against them, in fact if you play this right and they're stupid enough to continue with a NTO/NOR I would virtually guarantee an award their response and reasoning is SOOOO bad. But you have to play them, a bit like anglng except here you'd be angling for costs Too late now, but we could include in any formal reps. Surely more than one the council pic! This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 28 May 2019 - 12:04 |
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Tue, 28 May 2019 - 12:27
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
OK thank you for your additional insight
i'll update if i need to reload the appeal gun! |
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 13:14
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 14:30
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 11 Sep 2016 Member No.: 87,077 |
Long time lurker, but I'm pretty sure that claiming they are 'not willing to consider further challenges at this stage' is a Procedural Impropriety, as they should always consider further reps I thought.
Wait for further feedback, just in case I am wrong..... |
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 18:07
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,656 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
You need to show us all of all the documents. When you get the NTO post that and one of us will help you write your representation
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 8 Jun 2019 - 09:41
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
Personally I would write back again.
Dear Sirs Ref PCN ???? Your Letter dated ???? Thanks for the further information but I am still struggling on ascertaining what cancels the general loading exemption on yellow lines relative to position near a junction. I need full information so I may consider further options. You kindly referred me to Traffic Management Act 2004, Schedule 7, Item 4(2)(a) and 4(2)(b) which I reproduce in full. "(2)The offences are— (a)an offence under section 64(3) of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976 (c. 57) of causing a vehicle to stop on part of a road appointed, or deemed to have been appointed, as a hackney carriage stand; (b)an offence under section 5, 11, 16(1) or 16C of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27) (contravention of certain traffic orders) of contravening a prohibition or restriction on waiting, or loading or unloading, of vehicles;" Could you explain what Hackney Carriage Stand was present or signed as you seem to be reliant on this? Could you point out within Schedule 7(4)(2)(b) where distance from a corner is specified or the relevant legislation or Order which enables this section to be used? Could you also specify which signs were present to show that the standard loading exemption was not allowed? Many thanks for your continued efforts with this, I am sure you appreciate the need to be exact and to apply the correct legislation. Yours.... Hugs and Kisses. Up to you but being as they cite some legislation, I would call them on it now. |
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Sun, 9 Jun 2019 - 08:08
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 Member No.: 19,194 |
Thank you! I love this site
Will report back |
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