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Fine for leaving engine idle. not parking.
hiney
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 08:07
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i was in hillingdon the other day and i was fined for my engine being running,

what are my options... anyone else had this... fine is £80 but £50 if paid within 2 weeks.

help!
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post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 08:07
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Jlc
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 08:21
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QUOTE (hiney @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 09:07) *
what are my options...

Let's see the reverse too (hopefully in focus).

But in simple terms the options are to pay it or take the matter to court. (It's quite possible you have to elect for a court hearing)


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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hiney
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:11
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better quality of front and back

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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:16
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Is the existence of the PSPO ref not idling the engine signed around the area?


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666
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:22
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:16) *
Is the existence of the PSPO ref not idling the engine signed around the area?

Is that necessary in this case, when it is already an offence under CUR?
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hiney
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:09
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:16) *
Is the existence of the PSPO ref not idling the engine signed around the area?



i did not see 1 sign at all?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:32
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QUOTE (666 @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:16) *
Is the existence of the PSPO ref not idling the engine signed around the area?

Is that necessary in this case, when it is already an offence under CUR?

The PSPO makes an offence of actions that may not be an offence under the CUR though, my understanding was a PSPO needed signage to inform them of the extra restriction. (guidance here suggests so https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/file...dance_06_1.pdf)
QUOTE
Signs publishing the Order in the affected locality do not necessarily need to set out all the provisions of the Order, but rather state where this information can be found. Multiple signs are likely to be required, particularly where the Order covers a large area.

PSPO's here https://archive.hillingdon.gov.uk/pspo haven't had a chance to read them yet.

Perhaps the OP can details the circumstances being alleged, duration, why, etc.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:35


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hiney
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 13:48
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They basically said to me there is no legal time, and they can give it to me straight away if they want, but they have to use common sense and its at their discretion, he said he left me for 5 minutes to see what i was doing then he was gave me the ticket, so he could see what i was doing, to see if i was going to park etc.

I have been back since and the signs still arent there, but they are some in and around that i have seen.

he also said if i was going to park after, he wouldnt have given me one...

This post has been edited by hiney: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 13:49
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cp8759
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 14:59
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How did they get your name?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hiney
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 09:16
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They took my ID

Im seeing an old post on here, saying the fine should be 20£ as that was set by government and local councils cant change that and the fine is too high etc, anyone know anything about this?
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Logician
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 10:43
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QUOTE (hiney @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 09:16) *
They took my ID Im seeing an old post on here, saying the fine should be 20£ as that was set by government and local councils cant change that and the fine is too high etc, anyone know anything about this?


From the link given by the Rookie:


How are they enforced?
Failure to comply with a PSPO is an offence which could result in a fine of up to £1,000 in a magistrates court. Police and council officers, and officers authorised by the council, can enforce the conditions of PSPOs and can issue fixed penalty notices of £80 for non-compliance.



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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 10:48
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I'm not looking back but seem to recall that they should ask you to switch your engine off first and only if you don't they can issue a FP


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Ocelot
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 18:23
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 11:48) *
I'm not looking back but seem to recall that they should ask you to switch your engine off first and only if you don't they can issue a FP


That's my understanding too.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 20:14
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That may be guidance but I can’t see that being statute, if the offence has been committed, it’s been committed.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 22:49
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 21:14) *
That may be guidance but I can’t see that being statute, if the offence has been committed, it’s been committed.



I would suggest that the term continues to without reasonable excuse would indicate a person must be asked to desist

https://archive.hillingdon.gov.uk/media/337...gned_190417.pdf


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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 04:37
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I would suggest it means nothing of the sort, a reasonable excuse may be ‘just jump started with a flat battery and need to charge’ or ‘it’s -15 outside and I need to keep warm’, not ‘I've not been asked to turn it off’.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 04:41
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 05:37) *
I would suggest it means nothing of the sort, a reasonable excuse may be ‘just jump started with a flat battery and need to charge’ or ‘it’s -15 outside and I need to keep warm’, not ‘I've not been asked to turn it off’.


How would you ascertain if a reasonable excuse exists if you are not asked in the first place


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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 05:18
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Let the court test it, just like reasonable diligence defence to an S172.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 05:27
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 06:18) *
Let the court test it, just like reasonable diligence defence to an S172.



dont think so the wording is in the restricted area a person commits an offence if without reasonable excuse he or she continues to carry out activities from which the are prohibited



So no offence is committed until an excuse is rejected and the person continues anyway


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The Rookie
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 07:32
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I don’t see the offence we are taking about listed in the ‘cease and desist’ criteria?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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