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PCN Lomdon Stratford Newham Council
Ozibee
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:34
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Hi all,

I would very much apprecciate some help on this one.

I parked my vehicle on a single yellow line near stratford bus station on a sunday afternoon (16/07/2017) alongside around 8 cars without permits or P&D tickets while i went off to shop at westfield.

When i came back all the 8 cars including mine where fined.

Apparently there is no free parking on the single yellow line on event days.

How am i supposed to know it was an event day and parking is restricted o those days? Apparently there is a sign on the enterence of the road.

There was only two signs on the road i was parked on and both were covered with black bin bags. I ripped them to investigate but there was nothing about parking on event days.

Now this location is a real money earner for the council because people who dont want to pay westfield carpark £10 fee end up here in the closest proximity. But easily get caught out by the fact there is no sign there and it is on a total different road.

There is no way you can tell if it is controlled or not.

I appealed with photos of the black bag covered signs and the yellow line that was not continuos (broken and faded in areas) as well as the fact that a sign post should be kept every 30 metres.

I received a letter back today almost a month later after i thought it had been dismissed totally disregarding the points that i made and stating "your vehicle was parked on a single yellow line and no loading or unloading activity was taking place"and "you would have passed a controlled zone sign as you entered the zone".

I'm confused right now what has loading or unloading got to do with anything and why have they ignored the points that i raised?

Do i have any chance with this one or should i cough up my 6th fine this year?

What does the law say surrounding how these signs are located, and about the signs covered with bin bags?


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post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:34
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DancingDad
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 16:40
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PCN and a streetview link to where you were parked please.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 17:22
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Loading is an exempt activity, that's why they mentioned it.

We have had many Stratford event zone cases since they started the zone around the Olympic Park. Some have been won owing to inadequate signage both at the entrances to the zones and on the street.

What was your route into the zone - it's Stratford Central zone.
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Ozibee
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 19:45
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Streetview link here

My access route was from the A12 Bow via High Street / A118 the parking location was at the end of Station Street E15.

@Dancingdad PCN here

This post has been edited by Ozibee: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 - 10:31
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 24 Sep 2017 - 08:39
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OP-- consider this thread:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115834

The grounds of inadequate signage and a deficient PCN are key -- (the PCN you lost is likely to be the same).

My view is that the Council cannot effectively demonstrate an event day by placing plastic bags over street signs.

Their rejection is a template--fill in the date and sign it type-- no consideration of the issues you raised.

Mick
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Ozibee
post Sun, 24 Sep 2017 - 09:56
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Hi all thanks for all your helpful responses.

I found the PCN turns out i never through it away.

I have photos of the only two signs on station street one covered with a black bin bag and tape and the other replaced with an outdated parking prohibited notice applying to the period april/may.

I also have 2 photos of the yellow line broken by 20cm at one point and another where it is covered with tarmac for about 1meter.

Im having trouble uploading these so i will post links.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk

I ripped the bin bag off and found this, which had i seen i would have known about the event day restriction:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk

The same sign was also behind the outdated prohibition notice:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxImb2muMc...ew?usp=drivesdk


This post has been edited by Ozibee: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 - 10:18
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Ozibee
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:01
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 24 Sep 2017 - 09:39) *
OP-- consider this thread:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115834

The grounds of inadequate signage and a deficient PCN are key -- (the PCN you lost is likely to be the same).

My view is that the Council cannot effectively demonstrate an event day by placing plastic bags over street signs.

Their rejection is a template--fill in the date and sign it type-- no consideration of the issues you raised.

Mick


Okay so inadequate signage is good but when you say defecient PCN what makes it defecient i had a loom at the other thread and it appears her PCN was soaked and not readable...

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 18:22) *
Loading is an exempt activity, that's why they mentioned it.

We have had many Stratford event zone cases since they started the zone around the Olympic Park. Some have been won owing to inadequate signage both at the entrances to the zones and on the street.

What was your route into the zone - it's Stratford Central zone.


Does my route fit into your description? I still dont know where the sign post is sad.gif
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:26
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forget all the signs, (parking bay, parking prohibited as it is out of date and those covered with plastic) none of them matter. What does is does the cpz apply on a sunday and where the cpz signs adequate.

so need to find where those signs are along your route

Batteries dying more later read this case

2170389163

The Appellant attended the hearing in person.
The Appellant parked her vehicle on a Sunday at a location where pay and display is required during certain periods. The sign indicates the restrictions as follows:
Mon - Sat 8am - 6:30 pm
On event days 8:00 am - midnight
I am sure that the Authority intends an interpretation that on event days, restrictions apply 8:00 am to midnight everyday. The Appellant's interpretation is that event day restrictions apply Monday to Saturday so that the hours of restrictions are extended to midnight.
The Appellant's interpretation is not unreasonable. The sign is not clear enough.
Furthermore, the restrictions would only apply on a Sunday if it was an event day. The Authority has not provided any evidence that 23 April 2017 was an event day.
I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred. I allow the appeal.






https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5365546,-...33;8i6656?hl=en

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 09:35


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stamfordman
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:17
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If you came in from the west along the High Street the only CPZ sign on street view I can see is this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5365546,-0....3312!8i6656

which is for Stratford south-west zone, not central.

I've looked the zone signage around the central zone before and I didn't think it is adequate but they may have improved it.

This is the map of the zone - they have the high street on the border in some places:

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Documents/Transpo...ral-RPZ-map.pdf

You would at least expect to signs after Lett Rd (which does have signs but only when you turn in to it).

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:38
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Neil B
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:29
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QUOTE (Ozibee @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:01) *
Does my route fit into your description? I still dont know where the sign post is sad.gif

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5403331,-...33;8i6656?hl=en
50m away.

I don't like the way Newham operate this so hope we can help - but -

Europe's largest shopping centre, spitting distance of a major stadium, right next to two
main transport hubs; not to mention the volumes of people -

- and you seriously expected to be able to park?

--
Just out of interest, where were you going?

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:25) *

Just realised that can't be right.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Ozibee
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:20
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:26) *
forget all the signs, (parking bay, parking prohibited as it is out of date and those covered with plastic) none of them matter. What does is does the cpz apply on a sunday and where the cpz signs adequate.

so need to find where those signs are along your route

Batteries dying more later read this case

2170389163

The Appellant attended the hearing in person.
The Appellant parked her vehicle on a Sunday at a location where pay and display is required during certain periods. The sign indicates the restrictions as follows:
Mon - Sat 8am - 6:30 pm
On event days 8:00 am - midnight
I am sure that the Authority intends an interpretation that on event days, restrictions apply 8:00 am to midnight everyday. The Appellant's interpretation is that event day restrictions apply Monday to Saturday so that the hours of restrictions are extended to midnight.
The Appellant's interpretation is not unreasonable. The sign is not clear enough.
Furthermore, the restrictions would only apply on a Sunday if it was an event day. The Authority has not provided any evidence that 23 April 2017 was an event day.
I am not satisfied that the contravention occurred. I allow the appeal.






https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5365546,-...33;8i6656?hl=en


It appears the sign has been updated to show the next event day which also happens to be a Sunday so i think they are covered?

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:29) *
QUOTE (Ozibee @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 10:01) *
Does my route fit into your description? I still dont know where the sign post is sad.gif

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5403331,-...33;8i6656?hl=en
50m away.

I don't like the way Newham operate this so hope we can help - but -

Europe's largest shopping centre, spitting distance of a major stadium, right next to two
main transport hubs; not to mention the volumes of people -

- and you seriously expected to be able to park?

--
Just out of interest, where were you going?

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 11:25) *

Just realised that can't be right.


Ive parked there multiple times obviously not on event days but either way if i have a chance i will fight it, if you guys think there is no chance i'll bite the bullet .
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stamfordman
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:27
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I've found the Stratford Central (S zone) entry - it's a long way back along the High Street:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5356875,-0....3312!8i6656

This is where Newham says the signs are:

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Documents/Transpo...gnLocations.pdf

thing is if still there you then pass that Stratford south west (SSW) sign... and I can't see another S sign.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 17:15
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Neil B
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 18:45
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 17:27) *
thing is if still there you then pass that Stratford south west (SSW) sign... and I can't see another S sign.

But both are in the event zone.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 19:23
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QUOTE
QUOTE
I am sure that the Authority intends an interpretation that on event days, restrictions apply 8:00 am to midnight everyday. The Appellant's interpretation is that event day restrictions apply
Monday to Saturday so that the hours of restrictions are extended to midnight The Appellant's interpretation is not unreasonable. The sign is not clear enough


This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 19:25


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stamfordman
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 19:47
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 19:45) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 17:27) *
thing is if still there you then pass that Stratford south west (SSW) sign... and I can't see another S sign.

But both are in the event zone.


Yes, but if you then see residents' bays saying you're in S and you passed SSW this is a tad confusing, especially if you can't recall the S sign you passed before SSW. A visitor also wouldn't know about an 'event zone' - that's not on the signs - but may know about CPZs.
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