Park with Ease, White Moss |
Park with Ease, White Moss |
Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:23
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,941 |
Hello,
I wonder if the forum can help with this letter. As registered keeper, I’ve received the following Parking Charge - Notice to Keeper from a company called Park with ease. The location (White Moss, Rydal), date and duration of the alleged incident are not disputed. The driver entered the car park, but did not ‘park’ or even leave the vehicle. The driver had pulled off the road to use a mobile phone. I haven’t made any contact with the company yet. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. |
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:23
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Advertise here! |
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:31
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
That Parking Notice doesn't include the mandatory warning required by the Protection of Freedoms Act :
If the parking company doesn't know the name and address of the driver, it will after 28 days have the right to recover payment from the registered keeper If you weren't the driver, Park with Ease cannot recover any payment from you Have a look through some recent threads for the Ostell letter |
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 16:21
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,887 Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,368 |
Yes easy to find, type Ostell in the top search box
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 16:29
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,337 Joined: 4 Jan 2007 Member No.: 9,897 |
you did park , you parked for 24 mins (approx) , you parked up and used your phone , had you have not parked up for 24 mins you would have left tyre tracks and used petrol
sorry , you parked and should have paid |
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 17:09
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
you did park , you parked for 24 mins (approx) Assuming the signage was sufficient the contract could well be deemed accepted by conduct. Just because the driver chose not to read the signage (and leave if they didn't like it) doesn't mean there's an easy defence. The OP can decide whether the want to pay or fight. One angle could be the failure to comply with PoFA. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 19:23
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Why would anyone pay a glaringly non-POFA PCN like that piece of toilet paper?!
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 16:40
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,941 |
Thanks for the replies everyone.
The 'was it or wasn't it parked' angle was just me wondering out loud - not in a bay, not exiting the vehicle. Is that parked? Maybe not a useful road to go down if POFA non-compliance is a better angle. I've found the letter you refer to, and made a few (mostly cosmetic) changes to it. Would be grateful if somebody gives it the once-over. Are there any dates I should target for sending this letter, or just get it done now? A further complication is that I'll be out of the country for 5, 10 and 20 days over the next couple of months which might limit my admin abilities! I did consider putting this (especially the dates of the 20 day absence) in my letter as a 'courtesy' that I might not be able to reply in a timely fashion, but I think it would probably be more likely to be used against me than help? -- Dear Park with Ease, Re: PCN No. xxxxx, VRM No: xxxxx I refer to the above Notice to Keeper. I note that you have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 including, but not limited to: - failing to inform me, the keeper, that you are only contacting me due to not knowing the driver’s name and the driver’s current address as stated in Section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. - failing to give notice of the keeper’s liability as prescribed in Section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper. You will no doubt be aware that there is no legal requirement for me to name the driver, and I will not be doing so. I look forward to receiving conformation that this matter is closed, after which I do not expect to hear from you, your debt collectors or agents. Yours faithfully, Registered Keeper. |
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 17:22
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
9 (2) (e) has been complied with, probably better than most
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Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 17:41
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,941 |
Thanks. I'll take that line out.
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Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 01:48
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
But this is the silver bullet anyway, that shows it's a non POFA PCN:
QUOTE failing to give notice of the keeper’s liability as prescribed in Section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. Submit that by email or on any online appeals page the PCN makes available, and not by post unless given no other option, |
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Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 12:28
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
School Run Mum, I started a thread in the Flame Pit a few days ago regarding post v E mail v online.
Would you do me the honour of finding it and explain to me, on there, why you are so vehemently against first class post, with certificate of posting, given that, as far as I can find out, it is the only method of service that contains a legal assumption of service? -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 12:29
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,283 Joined: 5 Jan 2012 Member No.: 52,178 |
Be warned, some of these cases do get as far as court. PWE's contract with Lowther Estates (who own White Moss) must allow them to do this, while others (e.g. LDNP) probably don't, as we see no cases from them.
So be sure to keep all paperwork for 6 years in case they try it on. |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 12:48
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,941 |
Thanks for the advice so far. Just reading up on the merits of post vs email.
Is there any specific date to target for sending them my letter? Once I've pointed out the errors in their letter, what's to stop them sending me another POFA-compliant version? |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 12:51
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 419 Joined: 22 Oct 2018 Member No.: 100,530 |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 13:56
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#15
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 16 Jan 2019 Member No.: 101,941 |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 14:41
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
...and youc oudl have worked that out yourself
Each quesiton you ask here, when the answer is something you can work out yourself, takes away from people who really need help. |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 15:32
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
it is the only method of service that contains a legal assumption of service? Does it? On what basis? -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 17:59
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
Flame pit.
-------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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