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Private parking tickets - don't know how to appeal, Threads merged
Mbirkett1
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 07:20
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Hi, I have been issued a PCN by CPM uk car park management for parking in a private car park.
I was parking in there in the late evening, the car park doesn't have a ticket machine and I incorrectly assumed that it would be ok to park in the evening.

I now have 2 parking tickets all relating to parking for no more than 2 hrs each time.

Is there any way that I can appeal this tickets.

The addrsss of the car park is Lawrence street in Stockport

Appreciate any help to avoid paying this cost.

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post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 07:20
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ostell
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 07:55
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So lets see the ticket, with identifying details redacted.

There seems to be 2 car parks there (and a car park for a building), one run by SIP. The other one has no signs that I can see. Which one were you?

Location
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Jlc
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 07:57
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QUOTE (Mbirkett1 @ Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:20) *
Is there any way that I can appeal this tickets.

What are the terms of parking? Some more information for us to provide some advice - pictures of the signs perhaps. Why did you park etc?

QUOTE (Mbirkett1 @ Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:20) *
Appreciate any help to avoid paying this cost.

Unfortunately, these charges can be enforced - there's still a lot of misinformation about 'ignoring' private companies. This particular PPC is fairly litigious.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mbirkett1
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:28
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I work in a building nearby. As it was late on in the evening (both tickets after 5pm) I didn't think there would be an issue.

I've not really got a great excuse. It is free parking on the street after 6pm
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Lynnzer
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:42
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Agree. This has to be challenged or it will more than likely go to court.
As mentioned, Lawrence St seems to have one council run car park, small one at that, and two others one of which seems to have has previous access via a barrier. It has no signs at the entry and the ones on the inside, if they are actual signs seem to be far too small to draw your attention to them. This is a typical UKCPM trap.

A copy of the ticket would be best for a start so we can see how it stands the test, then a picture of one of the signs also. They are usually forbidding, ie they tell you not to something rather than make an offer to park. Such as Unauthorised parking not allowed, etc.

If you are at all able, place a dash cam on the dashboard and drive slowly in to where you parked and it'll bring up any lack of adequate signage.

The signs should be conspicuous enough to be seen at night so that would require them to be reflective or lit.

Also get pictures of the signs that don't appear to set a contractual relationship such as the ones here at either side of the larger sign.

For what it's worth you'd have been better parking in here, if it was possible, directly opposite.
That sign is a BIG get-out to a ticket.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:44


--------------------
The Asda shopping trolley parking ticket enthusiast
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Mbirkett1
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 08:48
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Here is a picture of the ticket. I will get pictures of the signage and send asap

This post has been edited by Mbirkett1: Mon, 22 May 2017 - 10:35
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ostell
post Fri, 19 May 2017 - 09:34
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When did you actually receive the Notice to Keeper, ignoring the date they say they issued it. More than 14 days after the incident then they can not hold the keeper liable.

Waiting for the other items. The signs look as though they may well be forbidding ones. There are no signs at the entrance to the car park.

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 19 May 2017 - 09:34
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emanresu
post Sat, 20 May 2017 - 05:00
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Is this a different location from your other recent one here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113393
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Mbirkett1
post Sun, 21 May 2017 - 12:13
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I have attached the car park entrance and there are 4 signs exactly the same on each side of the car park.

'When did you actually receive the Notice to Keeper, ignoring the date they say they issued it. More than 14 days after the incident then they can not hold the keeper liable.'
I am unsure of the date they were received as I was away on holiday when they were received


I have since received a 3rd ticket - This was issued 15 days after the event - does this give me grounds to appeal this ticket?

'Is this a different location from your other recent one here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113393'
The recent tickets are from a different location to my previous post.

The letter states that I need to appeal in writing, should I appeal all 3 tickets in the same letter or send multiple appeal letters

This post has been edited by Mbirkett1: Sun, 21 May 2017 - 12:20
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ostell
post Sun, 21 May 2017 - 19:13
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Send different envelopes to start with so that they can't see they may be linked (yet). If no windscreen ticket and issued 15 days after the event then there is no possible way that the keeper could have received the notice within 14 days. A simple letter from the keeper saying that as they have failed to meet the requirements of POFA, namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the NTK within 14 days then the keeper cannot be held liable and they must therefore hold the driver responsible. You have no requirement to name the driver and will not be.

Can you assume that the other NTKs were out of time?

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 21 May 2017 - 19:14
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hexaflexagon
post Sun, 21 May 2017 - 20:04
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Please redact the PCN picture and remove your name and anything else that links it to you, e.g. the reference number and time.
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ostell
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 07:28
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Well at least it is a forbidding sign and is not offering parking to non permit holders so no contract formed.
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Mbirkett1
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 07:35
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 21 May 2017 - 20:13) *
Can you assume that the other NTKs were out of time?



It would be difficult with the first one, the incident date is 27th April and issued date was 5th may, even with Royal Mail would have been received in time. For the 2nd 2 I will send the appeal today .
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Mbirkett1
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 10:11
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 22 May 2017 - 08:28) *
Well at least it is a forbidding sign and is not offering parking to non permit holders so no contract formed.


What's the difference?
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 10:21
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QUOTE (Mbirkett1 @ Mon, 22 May 2017 - 11:11) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 22 May 2017 - 08:28) *
Well at least it is a forbidding sign and is not offering parking to non permit holders so no contract formed.


What's the difference?


In essence if there's no contract then CPM can't issue a charge notice which is effectively saying here's a charge for the 'contract' we say you have agreed to. There is no contract hence you've not agreed to anything.

The offence you've committed is the Tort of Trespass and only the landholder can sue you for trespass and that would be in a magistrates court. It's unlikey that CPM are the landholder and unlikely they have a contract with the landholder which would allow them to act as agent for the landholder and commence a prosecution for trespass.

..and please remove your name and other identifiying details from the PCN you uploaded. CPM can link this discussion back to your particular case since they know your name and the date and time of the offence as well as the reference number.
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Mbirkett1
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 10:36
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Removed the image of the ticket. Is there a template for the appeal letter that I should send to CPM?
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 22 May 2017 - 11:20
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QUOTE (Mbirkett1 @ Mon, 22 May 2017 - 11:36) *
Removed the image of the ticket. Is there a template for the appeal letter that I should send to CPM?


At this stage and since they'll probably reject anything you say just tell them that because the signs are forbidding there is no contract between you. Don't use the word 'appeal' since that implies you're accepting there is a case to answer. Something like

"Dear....

I have received the charge notice Ref: xxx. The signs in the car park in question are forbidding in nature and hence they can't offer a non permit holder a contract to park. I therefore reject your invoice since there is no contract between us.

Please acknowledge this letter and confirm that you have removed my name from your records and that the charge notice has been cancelled."

Incidentally you were only asked to remove the identifying references in the picture of the PCN. Please do this and reinstate the picture since it will be useful for reference later on.

This post has been edited by hexaflexagon: Mon, 22 May 2017 - 11:21
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Mbirkett1
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 20:56
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Hi all, I’ll try to give you as much detail as I can in this case, but I haven’t kept a lot of the letters.

I originally asked for help on this parking charge I received last year and followed the advice as per this post:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113657

I sent 3 separate letters as advised in this post but never got any response. I continued to get letters from DRP and then from Gladstone’s but have just ignored these letters.

I have since received a county court Claim and now looking for some help and guidance with how I should respond to the claim.





Claim form
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ostell
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 20:59
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That wasn't a CC claim form, just a mere ignorable DRP letter
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 21:05
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Did you receive a letter before claim?

If yes, let’s see it (suitably redacted).

Did you reply to it?

If yes, let’s see it (suitably redacted too).

Ostell - what is it that tells you the OP has not received a claim form?

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 - 21:09
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