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Yellow box junction offence - Hammersmith
alfie1968
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:37
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Hi,

Newbie here - hoping you can advise or help.

I've just received a PCN though the post from Hammersmith
& Fulham council for a yellow box contravention on 9/2/19.
It was at the box junction of Talgarth Rd and Butterwick.

I have until 1st March to pay the discounted price of £65
but not sure how to approach this so would be grateful
for some help. From reading of similar on here there seems
to be mixed advice.

I live in the North West and wasn't/aren't
familiar with the junction in question as it's in London - I
know that's no defense. Is there any way of challenging this
or is it pointless? Strewth London driving is such a bind!

I've posted a copy of the PCN below.


https://ibb.co/59BNwb4

https://ibb.co/bXg6fsr


Thanks

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post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:37
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stamfordman
post Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 21:21
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no, you have to make a proper rep now or it's not worth doing, unless you just want to kick the can down the road to the adjudicator, which will be at £130.
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alfie1968
post Fri, 1 Mar 2019 - 21:35
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Thanks stamfordman. Since I'm currently packing my case and don't have a lot of time
to do this tonight - can I just quote a previously successful challenge at this same junction
and under similar circumstances, to them or does it need to something more substantial?
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alfie1968
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 21:45
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OK so I was very pushed for time when appealing this on 1/3/19.
Not great I know but I appealed as thus:

Dear Sir/Madam,
I respectfully draw your attention to a previous adjudication for this junction (case ref
2180108271). I was making a right turn at the junction of Talgarth Road and Butterwick
and was still in the process of making the right turn whilst in the yellow box. I therefore
maintain the contravention did not occur.

Yours sincerely



As expected they rejected it with a NORR and have given me until 18th March to pay
the discounted rate of £65 so I would appreciate any advice so I can make an informed
decision as to whether to pay or not by the 18th.

NORR as below:

https://ibb.co/6W8M5TY
https://ibb.co/QXdB98f
https://ibb.co/B6nsXcc

As always thanks for all help given.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 22:03
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Well they mis state the law. I am going to be writing an appeal on this basis tomorrow so you will be able to amend that. That they acknowledge that you were turning right will help


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alfie1968
post Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 22:29
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OK thanks PASTMYBEST, I'm interested to see what you come up with.

Yes I too thought it was encouraging that they acknowledged it was a right turn I was making, bearing in mind previous successful challenges made to similar PCNs at this junction.
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alfie1968
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 21:58
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Hi PASTMYBEST - did you have any joy with that appeal letter?

Does anyone else have any comment/advice regarding this.

TIA
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 22:53
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QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 21:58) *
Hi PASTMYBEST - did you have any joy with that appeal letter?

Does anyone else have any comment/advice regarding this.

TIA


not yet check back tomorrow afternoon


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alfie1968
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 23:09
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OK cheers
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Neil B
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 23:40
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QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Thu, 14 Mar 2019 - 22:29) *
Yes I too thought it was encouraging that they acknowledged it was a right turn I was making,

Only in so far as to go on to explain to you why the exemption doesn't apply in your circumstances.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 12:07
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QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 23:09) *
OK cheers


I will be drafting this later today, just pulling together all the supporting evidence and looking for cases that may support an argument re the poor video capture, the guy kept flipping around. They must have thought it was their birthday


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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 14:20
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http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125756

Got them both together now


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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 19:00
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Try this. Give it a good check for typos

https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtBHPhdJdppVrmgyNigew3XHqLZZ


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alfie1968
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:28
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Hi PASTMYBEST

Apologies for the delay replying to your last post but I've been out of the country.

Firstly thanks for all your help and effort in creating the Grounds document that you kindly composed.
I see you help a lot of people on here and it must take up a lot of your time which is appreciated.

I'm trying to edit your document in Word but it's moaning saying it's an ODT document and there may
be some compatibility issues. Sure enough when I open it up some of it is garbled in the top right corner.

Here's a pic of what I mean https://ibb.co/3YNK2b4

Also can you confirm you've bolded all the text under section 1 point 3b?
I just want to make sure it's not another formatting issue and that it's not randomly bolding lines.

Thanks
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:32
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QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:28) *
Hi PASTMYBEST

Apologies for the delay replying to your last post but I've been out of the country.

Firstly thanks for all your help and effort in creating the Grounds document that you kindly composed.
I see you help a lot of people on here and it must take up a lot of your time which is appreciated.

I'm trying to edit your document in Word but it's moaning saying it's an ODT document and there may
be some compatibility issues. Sure enough when I open it up some of it is garbled in the top right corner.

Here's a pic of what I mean https://ibb.co/3YNK2b4

Also can you confirm you've bolded all the text under section 1 point 3b?
I just want to make sure it's not another formatting issue and that it's not randomly bolding lines.

Thanks


PM me the required details and I will add them for you


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alfie1968
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:51
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Also can I confirm that on the London Tribunals website for Grounds Of Appeal I should be ticking BOTH
"The contravention alleged by the authority on the penalty charge notice did not occur"

AND

"The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case"


PASTMYBEST - i've PM'd you
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:55
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QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:51) *
Also can I confirm that on the London Tribunals website for Grounds Of Appeal I should be ticking BOTH
"The contravention alleged by the authority on the penalty charge notice did not occur"

AND

"The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case"


PASTMYBEST - i've PM'd you


Yes I have responded


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 15:49
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:55) *
QUOTE (alfie1968 @ Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 14:51) *
Also can I confirm that on the London Tribunals website for Grounds Of Appeal I should be ticking BOTH
"The contravention alleged by the authority on the penalty charge notice did not occur"

AND

"The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case"


PASTMYBEST - i've PM'd you


Yes I have responded


edit


This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 - 15:49


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alfie1968
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 17:59
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Hi,

This is now awaiting a verdict from London Tribunals.

I'll post back to advise the outcome.

Thanks to all that have helped so far
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alfie1968
post Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:14
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Hi,

I just wanted to give an update on how my London Tribunals
appeal went, after all the kind people that helped me out on here,
particularly PASTMYBEST and stamfordman.

Unfortunately London Tribunals turned down my appeal.

Disappointing, bearing in mind the collective effort of everybody off here.

So is that it now? Are there no further avenues I can go down?

A link to their decision letter is below, comments welcome


https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2dz681sk3nyut4/D...015809.pdf?dl=0
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stamfordman
post Wed, 15 May 2019 - 14:20
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I'm sorry you lost this but the balance of opinion here was not to pursue it. If it were me I'd review it on the basis that the adjudicator doesn't know his stationery from his stationary.

I'm sure PMB will look at this to see if there is a review avenue.

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