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Driving other than in accordance with licence - trailer offence?
smo
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:06
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I was pulled yesterday whilst towing and was booked for "driving other than in accordance with a licence".

The vehicle is a discovery and is plated at 2880kg gross
The trailer was unbraked, loaded with 300kg and plated at 750kg gross
I passed my test in 1999 hence dont have B+E

When added together you get 3630kg, 130kg over the 3500 limit i can tow on my licence, HOWEVER, the discovery is a commercial and does not weigh in at 2880kg, in fact it only weighs 2400kg, and the trailer weighed in at 400kg all up not the 750kg max gross weight.

Is it feasable, or possible to appeal against the points as i was actually well under the 3500kg limit, even though the theoretical plated weights state i was over??
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post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:06
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jobo
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:09
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who pulled you over
police
or ministry

was a weigh bridge involved at all ?


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jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
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smo
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:22
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Police, a loan traffic cop in an unmarked car.

No weigh bridge involved - wasnt given the option otherwise i would gladly have taken it knowing i was actualy under the legal weight.
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jobo
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:29
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where had they borrowed him from ( sorry, people do it to me all the time)


so this is just based on you having a trailer which was plated for a weight above your license entitlement and nothing to do with the actual weight


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jobo

anyone but Murray, Wish granted for another year,
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smo
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:31
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The problem is simply that the plated weight of the vehicle and trailer were above 3500kg - not the actual weight, just theoretical weights.

My boss has suggested we get the discovery replated @ 2400kg but i dont know if that will help??

And yes, he should have been a lone cop, not a loan cop tongue.gif
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jaykay
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:43
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Surely the maximum gross weights are irrelevant, it's only the actual train weight that matters, and that each bit of the train has to be under the maximum figures.

I can't see how this would stand up in court as there is zero evidence the OP was over any limits - hence he was driving in accordance with the licence conditions.

You can either try and get the Police to see sense, or let it go to court. I would have though the CPS would drop it at the first opportunity.


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quickboy
post Sat, 18 Apr 2009 - 23:58
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QUOTE (jaykay @ Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 00:43) *
Surely the maximum gross weights are irrelevant, it's only the actual train weight that matters, and that each bit of the train has to be under the maximum figures.

I can't see how this would stand up in court as there is zero evidence the OP was over any limits - hence he was driving in accordance with the licence conditions.

You can either try and get the Police to see sense, or let it go to court. I would have though the CPS would drop it at the first opportunity.

I disagree. The maximum plated gross weight is the determining factor, so very relevant. It does not matter what the actual weight of the vehicle and trailer added up at any particular time. It is what the combination of the vehicle and trailer COULD carry that is important. So I think on this occasion the OP may be banged to rights. It sounds very unfortunate but I think you have to be realistic. Plus a roadside pull is just about the most difficult type to defend.


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Glacier2
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 07:15
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The OP should have had a C1 to drive that combo or else EB. As the trailer is under 750kgs the E is usually not needed.
It is going to be a tricky one to defend in court. How many points are you due off of this? Do you have any current points?

Yes getting the Discovery down to 2400kgs would help for the future, I am not sure it will save you bacon this time.
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smo
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 09:07
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I gather im due 3 points for this - not got any so far, never been pulled in over 10 years driving.

Do you not think i could appeal if we get the disco re-plated on the grounds it was wrong??
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quickboy
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 14:51
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QUOTE (smo @ Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 10:07) *
Do you not think i could appeal if we get the disco re-plated on the grounds it was wrong??

Was the original plating done by Landrover when the vehicle was supplied new? It should have been correct when it left the factory. You mentioned in post 1 about the disco being classed as a commercial. Does it only have two seats in the front, the rear used as cargo space and no rear side windows?


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Results from taking councils on regarding PCNs (Lines and signs)

Quickboy 2 Torbay Council 0

Quickboy 1 Swindon Council 0

If a council tell you your own name, check they are correct!

Always challenge PCNs. Make them work for their money!
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smo
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 18:50
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Yes, no rear seats and rear windows blanked out - its a factory commercial as per special vehicles from landrover.

We know the weight is wrong though, it weighs in at 2400kg on a weighbridge, not the 2880kg plated.
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quickboy
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 20:59
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QUOTE (smo @ Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 19:50) *
Yes, no rear seats and rear windows blanked out - its a factory commercial as per special vehicles from landrover.

We know the weight is wrong though, it weighs in at 2400kg on a weighbridge, not the 2880kg plated.

What year and engine size is the vehicle? If you have got the owners manual it should give the maximum gross weight. MGW means the fully loaded maximum the vehicle could weigh in at. At 2400kg on the weighbridge was it totally empty? Just thinking about the 2880kg plated weight. It is possible the load area could hold 480kg taking the MGW up to 2880 as plated.


--------------------
Results from taking councils on regarding PCNs (Lines and signs)

Quickboy 2 Torbay Council 0

Quickboy 1 Swindon Council 0

If a council tell you your own name, check they are correct!

Always challenge PCNs. Make them work for their money!
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smo
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 21:13
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2004 2.5l TD5 Discovery commercial.

The "load area" could hold anything from a penny to a tonne of bricks, it was empty at the time, surely you cant go on what could possibly be carried in the back, depends on what you put in there!
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quickboy
post Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 21:41
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QUOTE (smo @ Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 22:13) *
2004 2.5l TD5 Discovery commercial.

The "load area" could hold anything from a penny to a tonne of bricks, it was empty at the time, surely you cant go on what could possibly be carried in the back, depends on what you put in there!

Unfortunately the police ARE going on what could possibly be carried on the combination of vehicles, ie Maximum Gross Weight, as plated. I am an HGV driver so familiar with vehicle weights! As Glacier2 said in a previous post the licence category either comes under C1 (between 3500 and 7500kg MGW with UNBRAKED trailer under 750kg MGW) OR B+E which covers a car or van with a trailer (trailer exceeding 750KG with brakes) Your disco would come under the "Car Derived Van" class.

As you passed your test in 1999, you would not have got C1 or B+E licence category without doing a separate driving test. The rules changed on January 1st 1997. Sorry to sound negative however I am trying to be realistic. I do not normally "side" with the BIB but on this occasion I do believe you have fallen foul of the licensing requirements for certain types of vehicles. You are not alone; the current driver licensing system in the UK is confusing and has caught many people out. I would say if you are offered a COFP and 3 points, take them rather than try to challenge the matter in court. The court option is guaranteed to cost you more unfortunately.

This post has been edited by quickboy: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 - 22:11


--------------------
Results from taking councils on regarding PCNs (Lines and signs)

Quickboy 2 Torbay Council 0

Quickboy 1 Swindon Council 0

If a council tell you your own name, check they are correct!

Always challenge PCNs. Make them work for their money!
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