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48j PCN - Hillingdon
TwinkleMagic
post Wed, 2 Jan 2019 - 11:15
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Hi,

Happy New Year!

My mother recently received a PCN. I have hopefully attached this successfully.

She has been working in the location in the notice for 15 years. There is a zig-zag restricted area in a give-way zone. She was waiting behind the line as per normal to allow the flow of traffic and then proceeded to cross the area until another car came out of a residential zone and she had to stop again. She was not parked or stopped for more than a few seconds. I am wondering if this is a PCN that can be disputed and if so, how can I support her with this? I have read others posts about 48j PCNs but I also realise they were quite a few years back so I wanted to check if there is anything updated that I need to do. Your help would be greatly appreciated.
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Attached File  PCN_48j.pdf ( 69.85K ) Number of downloads: 110
 
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post Wed, 2 Jan 2019 - 11:15
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DancingDad
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 17:18
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Their reason for rejection is poorly founded.
There is nothing to say you cannot drive into and stop on or in a restricted area when traffic dictates.
Applies to areas like Bus Stop Clearways, Crossing control areas and school zig zags.

Do what I saw two mothers do today, park on the ZZs and scroll through their phones while waiting for their kids (30 minutes before kick out time BTW) and deserve all you get but in this case, the reasoning is pants.
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TwinkleMagic
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 09:57
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My appeal:

Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing to appeal against the parking ticket received on 13th December 2018. The PCN was issued under 48j – Stopped in a restricted area outside a school, hospital or a fire, police or ambulance station when prohibited.


This PCN was issued under ludicrous reasons. I have been working at the location in question for over 15 years and this is my daily commute.


The video footage clearly illustrates vehicles approaching from the oncoming section of traffic on Judge Heath Lane and it also illustrates a sign that indicates priority is given to oncoming traffic. What the video footage does not show however is the car in the oncoming lane came from the residential street on the right and from behind the zig-zag, there is a blind spot, meaning you cannot pre-empt a vehicle coming from that side. Therefore, noticing that the oncoming traffic is clear, I proceeded ahead, only to notice a vehicle and stopped to allow the vehicles (shown in the footage) to proceed.


A give-way sign is also present in the aforementioned location. Highway Code 172 clearly stipulates that when presented with a ‘Give Way’ sign as is in the location in question, You MUST give way to traffic on the main road. I was obliged by law to stop my vehicle to avoid any possibility of a collision in the narrow section with the other car. Not doing this would be breaking the law. To be penalised for this is outrageous and makes me question the motive of this PCN.


What I am being penalised for is following the law. I respectfully request you to reconsider this PCN as it should never have been issued in the first place. I would also like to request that henceforth, a PCN should never be issued under these circumstances.


Yours Sincerely,
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:06
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QUOTE (TwinkleMagic @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 09:57) *
My appeal:

Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing to appeal against the parking ticket received on 13th December 2018. The PCN was issued under 48j – Stopped in a restricted area outside a school, hospital or a fire, police or ambulance station when prohibited.


This PCN was issued under ludicrous reasons. I have been working at the location in question for over 15 years and this is my daily commute.


The video footage clearly illustrates vehicles approaching from the oncoming section of traffic on Judge Heath Lane and it also illustrates a sign that indicates priority is given to oncoming traffic. What the video footage does not show however is the car in the oncoming lane came from the residential street on the right and from behind the zig-zag, there is a blind spot, meaning you cannot pre-empt a vehicle coming from that side. Therefore, noticing that the oncoming traffic is clear, I proceeded ahead, only to notice a vehicle and stopped to allow the vehicles (shown in the footage) to proceed.


A give-way sign is also present in the aforementioned location. Highway Code 172 clearly stipulates that when presented with a ‘Give Way’ sign as is in the location in question, You MUST give way to traffic on the main road. I was obliged by law to stop my vehicle to avoid any possibility of a collision in the narrow section with the other car. Not doing this would be breaking the law. To be penalised for this is outrageous and makes me question the motive of this PCN.


What I am being penalised for is following the law. I respectfully request you to reconsider this PCN as it should never have been issued in the first place. I would also like to request that henceforth, a PCN should never be issued under these circumstances.


Yours Sincerely,



This will not win it for you. What is the date on the notice of rejection. One of us will draft an appeal for you but we need a timescale to work to


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stamfordman
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:14
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:06) *
This will not win it for you. What is the date on the notice of rejection. One of us will draft an appeal for you but we need a timescale to work to



Agree but I think OP should just register the appeal for now as there's a good chance it will be a DNC.

OP - what is date fo rejection letter.

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TwinkleMagic
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:18
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Apologies - I did not make it clear. This was the original appeal I sent to them. I haven't sent anything since.

The date on the Notice of Rejection is 14/01/19

Thank you all for all your help, guidance and wisdom! It is truly greatly appreciated.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:24
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QUOTE (TwinkleMagic @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 10:18) *
Apologies - I did not make it clear. This was the original appeal I sent to them. I haven't sent anything since.

The date on the Notice of Rejection is 14/01/19

Thank you all for all your help, guidance and wisdom! It is truly greatly appreciated.


Deemed served on the 16th then so you have until the 12th of feb to submit.


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Earl Purple
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 17:35
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I think there is a confusion here about the definition of "stopping". The restriction of stopping is a waiting restriction that allows applies to stopping for loading, boarding/unboarding or any other purpose for which you need to make your vehicle stationary.

It does not apply to a situation where you have to stop due to traffic conditions including giving way.

The car had stopped to give way. That is part of driving, not stopping.

I think this junction has a terrible layout.
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cp8759
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:41
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As others have hinted, just register the appeal with the tribunal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box. Select "the alleged contravention did not occur". If the council contest it, the tribunal will give you a deadline to submit your appeal and we'll write it for you. If they don't contest, the penalty will just be cancelled.


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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 23:41) *
As others have hinted, just register the appeal with the tribunal and write "detailed grounds to follow" in the reasons box. Select "the alleged contravention did not occur". If the council contest it, the tribunal will give you a deadline to submit your appeal and we'll write it for you. If they don't contest, the penalty will just be cancelled.


Also select procedural impropriety as a ground


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Mr Meldrew
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 14:31
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Hello again TwinkleMagic. You won’t even think about paying this unconscionable demand, will you? The Council’s response has failed completely to prove the allegation because it is not possible (as it did not happen) that you stopped your vehicle on the school keep-clear markings for one of the legally enforceable reasons, and be assured that stopping to give priority to the oncoming dark car seen in the video evidence as directed by the sign ahead of you to diagram 615 in the relevant TSRGD sign table, was not one of them, and neither was waiting before the narrow section of road so as to prevent the quickly approaching light car having to change speed or direction, or to prevent any possibility of an encounter with it. Forget about the give way sign, which is not prescribed for that use anyhow, and forget about the give way road markings for the reason that you have not been accused of failing to comply with them, they are red herrings, as giving way which you did, did not mean that you had to come to a complete halt and you have broken no law, and in any event have already given this non-listening Council a completely acceptable reason why you remained stationary for the trifling four seconds you did, which is confirmed by the video.

It is much easier to excuse neglecting a single argument among many, than it is to excuse neglecting to consider the only argument represented, and that is why your representation was limited to, in essence, ‘stopping for a legal reason is not illegal’ which the Council have outrageously, manifestly not considered at all, or they would have addressed or even mentioned it and not some inept reference to “mitigation”, which your legally sound representation most certainly was not. I’m not a fan of multiple arguments where there exists a strong argument if the other arguments are not persuasive alone for the reason just given, and I’m not keen on bloat, which in my view some councils love to write for the converse reason that it is not immediately obvious that they have often written nothing much at all. Should they continue in this way, consideration should be given to seeking your costs at inevitable adjudication in my opinion. I hope this has helped you, and this forum will help you further if you so wish.

This post has been edited by Mr Meldrew: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 15:10


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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Incandescent
post Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 17:36
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+1
Do not pay and confirm them in their mendacity and wickedness
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TwinkleMagic
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:25
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Thank you so much PASTMYBEST, Earl Purple, cp8759, Mr Mildew and Incandescent. I wish there were a better way (maybe involving food of some kind) of saying thank you for all the brilliant selfless help you provide.

As per your guidance, I will register the appeal with the tribunal, selecting the grounds specified and will keep you all informed. Mr Mildew, I most definitely will not pay this ridiculous demand, it feels more like glorified theft!

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TwinkleMagic
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 09:50
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Update:

A hearing has been confirmed for 2nd March 2019.
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cp8759
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 17:12
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QUOTE (TwinkleMagic @ Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 09:50) *
Update:

A hearing has been confirmed for 2nd March 2019.

Has the council uploaded its evidence to the tribunal? If not, keep an eye out for it and post their case summary on here as soon as you get it.


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TwinkleMagic
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 15:13
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 17:12) *
QUOTE (TwinkleMagic @ Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 09:50) *
Update:

A hearing has been confirmed for 2nd March 2019.

Has the council uploaded its evidence to the tribunal? If not, keep an eye out for it and post their case summary on here as soon as you get it.



I am sorry if this is a silly question - Will their evidence be uploaded to the London Tribunal Appeal Update portal?

I have been checking both email inbox and the tribunal appeal and nothing has been submitted yet. Just wondering if it submitted somewhere else that I have not checked.
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cp8759
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 16:58
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QUOTE (TwinkleMagic @ Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 15:13) *
I am sorry if this is a silly question - Will their evidence be uploaded to the London Tribunal Appeal Update portal?

Simple answer, yes. Unless they decide not to contest, in which case you'll just win by default.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 17:02
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Often nothing will appear from the council till a few days before the hearing date.... 3 is minimum normally accepted but I may be wrong.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 17:31
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Bets favour a do not contest on this one. Or at least my betting shop does.
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Mr Meldrew
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 10:32
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Hillingdon might not contest, or they may continue to cite their unique Civil Regulations Amendment Provision (CRAP) as they did in the rejection notice that says vehicles are only “supposed” to stop before the give way line, but after passing the line it is forbidden for a vehicle to stop on school keep clear markings for oncoming vehicles that have priority, and that this CRAP ensures the safety of all school children, except for any in the oncoming vehicle (evidently).


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 10:38
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Have you submitted anything yet?


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