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NIP: Exceed 40 - Allegedly going 50.
Steven Stewart
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:47
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Hello Guys,

I am looking for a little bit of advice.

I have received a notice of intended prosecution where I was allegedly going 52 in a 40. They have asked me to identify the driver of car.

I genuinely cant remember being in the area at the time of the alleged offence. So it mentioned on the NIP that there was a photographic evidence so I called up and asked for a copy.

When I called to request the evidence. The women said to me on the phone. "Just let me check to see if we have a clear image I can send you". "Oh the image is not that clear and very dark you might struggle to identify the driver."

The image arrived through the post today. She was right the driver is unrecognisable due to the image being so dark.

There is two images included within the picture

The information on the screen is as follows:

Time, Date of Offence. The speed 0.52MPH, The distance which is 0203.4m
A time they have been recording from.

My question is, if I genuinely cant remember driving in that area at the time and the driver is unrecognisable how can they prosecute?

The image states 1 second between each image but the distance is the exact same in both images, is this correct?

Do you have a link to the other information I should ask when trying to defend my case.

I have 3 points already on my licence and I don't really want any more.

What is the next steps I should take?

Thanks for the help
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post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:47
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southpaw82
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:50
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QUOTE (Steven Stewart @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:47) *
My question is, if I genuinely cant remember driving in that area at the time and the driver is unrecognisable how can they prosecute?


They won’t (for speeding). They’ll just prosecute you for failing to name the driver.


QUOTE
What is the next steps I should take?

Name the driver.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Steven Stewart
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:57
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The issue I have is at the rough time it was. I was moving house into a new house. There were a few different people driving my car at the time.

Thats why the photographic evidence was kind of key to me being able to identify who it was, I naturally dont want the points if they were not entitled to me.

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BaggieBoy
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:20
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QUOTE (Steven Stewart @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:57) *
I naturally dont want the points if they were not entitled to me.

Absolutely. However the issue is you, as the registered keeper, are responsible for naming the driver. If you don't then you will end up in court defending a "failing to name" charge.
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peterguk
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:33
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QUOTE (Steven Stewart @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:57) *
There were a few different people driving my car at the time.

So you could name all the possible drivers? And all were properly insured to drive your car?


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Jlc
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:37
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Firstly any pictures are to identify the offence and the vehicle - and not the driver. They won't have sent you the evidential set to 'prove' the offence - it is almost certain the allegation is correct but is irrelevant without a driver nomination anyway. (Without a driver nomination they cannot secure a speeding conviction unless a guilty plea is submitted)

But as already noted, a separate charge will be pursed. s172 - failing to furnish.

As the keeper you have to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver. If you do not know or cannot identify them after using the reasonable diligence then there is the option to take the matter to court and try the statutory defence. Failure sees 6 points, large fine and an insurance-loading MS90 endorsement.

The 'unclear' pictures will not be deemed sufficient diligence. There's no specific bar for the diligence but it's generally quite difficult to convince the bench that the driver could not be identified, but not impossible. What else have you done?

With the chance of a fixed penalty or even course (to avoid points), it may be pragmatic for all the potential drivers to try and work out who was most likely speeding at the given location and time.

Naming the potential list of drivers won't prevent the matter going to court I'm afraid.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 15:38


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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KH_
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 16:22
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The usual advice, or part of it, is to check location history on your phone, if it's enabled. See if that gives an idea of who was there (or not)
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Logician
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 16:34
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QUOTE (Steven Stewart @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 14:57) *
The issue I have is at the rough time it was. I was moving house into a new house. There were a few different people driving my car at the time.


You will have to contact them and construct a timeline of who was driving the car, do not tell them the time of the photo or you might find no one was driving then. Were they all going backwards and forwards to the same place, ie would they all have gone past the camera? Unless this was in Scotland, the driver is likely to be offered a speed awareness course if they have not done one for an offence within the last three years, so on one hand the driver might do a course and get no points, on the other you would likely get 6 points, a large fine and heavily loaded premiums for not naming the driver. It is a serious offence to deliberately name the wrong driver, it is not an offence to name the most likely driver, and if all else fails that is your best course of action. Do NOT say that is what you are doing or use any wording such as "I will take responsibility" simply give a name.



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rosturra
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 16:40
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If you genuinely can't identify the driver from the picture, then I suggest you get a sheet of paper and work it through.

e.g. On the day of offence; was it during the day? How many of your friends/family took that day off to help you move?
Eliminate anyone who didn't.
Can you determine gender from photo? If definitely male eliminate your wife.
etc.

Write a timeline of the day. e.g.

In morning I met the removals company at loading site, and I travelled in van to destination. Whilst my brother drove my car.
We had lunch.
My brother went home, I drove back to loading site, with wife. She drove car back, when I travelled in van for second trip etc.
My mate Bob checked in after work, borrowed the car to pick up a takeaway and some bin bags.
etc.

Does the timeline identify the driver?

The alleged speeding location. Was that between the loading and destination site?
You say you don't think it was you.
Why would anyone be driving there? e.g. Was it on someone else's way home?

etc.

Check your texts. Do you have one near the time of offence that could help you identify where you were at the time?
'Bob, I'm in Wickes, how many gromits did you say you needed?'

etc.










This post has been edited by rosturra: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 16:40
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 17:18
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If it helps you don't need to be certain of the driver, you just need to name the most likely driver.

If you think it is most likely you, and name yourself unequivocally, they will offer a speed awareness course if you haven't done one in the last three years, or £100/3pts.

If it was likely one of your friends then you name them. They will then get their own S172 request. If they deny driving the police can take several routes, but one is to check you friend had insurance. If not it is 6pts for them and 6pts for you for permitting them to drive without insurance.

If you genuinely cannot remember then you can name all possible drivers. As has been said you will almost certainly be summonsed to court for failure to furnish, which is 6pts and a substantial jump in insurance premiums next year. You have a defence if you can show, with reasonable diligence, that you could not ascertain the driver. Certainly it is an unusual situation to have so many people driving one car on one day so you would need to explain exactly what happened.

If you think it is likely not your car at all then you need to let the camera office know, and also report it to 101 as a possible clone. They will likely ask you to send in photos of your car which they will check against the video to see if there is anything identifiable.

Obviously you need to choose the right option, not the most convenient, otherwise you risk being found to be perverting the course of justice and subsequent extensive sampling of prison wine.
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