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Bordesley St. Birmingham Premier Parking Logistics Private PCN
hustler6969
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 10:24
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Hi guys,

Pretty annoyed about what transpired yesterday (Boxing Day). A package had to be picked up from a friend and due to car parks in the area looking visibly busy, the driver decided to stop in a garage private car park just opposite the car park where my friend had parked, literally to get out, go to him inside the car park and pick up a package off of him. The garage was of course shut being Boxing Day, and a few others cars were (I think?) short-term parked there.

Now as the driver parked up, he/she did see someone suspect (couldn't see any uniform/gear on him though) so thought they'd ask him if he knew the 'parking rules' there just to suss out if he was some sort of a warden. He very convincingly said he knew nothing and didn't live in the area.

So of course the driver left the car there and walked across the road into the car park to see the friend (car park is the one if you turn around 360 degrees from the GS shot provided below). Now, no more than 7-8 mins later as the driver got back to where he/she parked, he/she saw a device on this same guy and saw him having started at the driver's car end giving tickets!! Of course the driver straight up asked him why he had outrightly lied to him/her and could've just told him/her straight up. Obviously he was quite uncouth, started raising his voice, arguing, and used a couple of expletives, and when the driver said that it reflected badly on his comapny, he said "I don't give a s*** about the company, company don't give a s*** about me!"

Also, the driver couldn't see any signs near the bit that he/she entered this car park through (lowered kerb bit immediately at the center bottom of the GSV shot). It was only after getting the ticket, when he/she looked, there was a sign saying 'only patrons' and only during their working hours'. However this sign was on the right hand side of the office door and out of his/her view when he/she parked, and should've been more prominent!

Believe they're called Premier Parking Logistics, and it was outside Whittaker Fleet Care Ltd., Birmingham.

PCN and pics by the warden attached here.

Anyone had experience with them, and a) Do PPL fines end up in court b) what grounds can the fine be appealed on (I mean is 7-8 minutes even reasonable time to fine someone in?)

Cheers guys


PCN Pg 1:

PCN Pg 2:

Pic 1:

Pic 2:

Pic 3:

GSV: https://www.instantstreetview.com/@52.47827...6.07h,-4.95p,1z

Out of (my) view parking sign:

This post has been edited by hustler6969: Sat, 29 Dec 2018 - 13:56
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post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 10:24
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hustler6969
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 23:27
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So, haven't heard back from them at all yet, any timeframes that they are bound by?
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Glacier2
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 00:54
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As this is an IPC company they will reject whatever you send them as an appeal and will kindly then offer you the chance before the kangaroo court that is the IAS.

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hustler6969
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 21:38
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Right, so I got a rejection in the post today:

Page 1:

Page 2:

Two things to note; one is that they claim that I didn't appeal within the stipulated 21 days but I was appealing as keeper and not driver so that shouldn't apply as per your earlier advice, right? Secondly, I've redacted my details but I can confirm that they have used the slight variation of the name I provided, so don't know if that works in my favour?

Anyway, what are my next steps?
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Glacier2
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 22:17
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Makes no difference as this is a IPC company. It is a bit rich that they didn't offer you the chance to appeal to the IAS. It shows them as being unreasonable.
Nevermind. Just standby for the letter before claim which will eventually turn up. Don't contact them any further at this point.
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hustler6969
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 22:30
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Hmm alright
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Macapaca
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 22:37
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If I understand correctly you never actually received a NTK? The fact they have used the incorrect details looks suspicious. It is worth writing to the DVLA to see whether they have asked for keeper details. If they haven't then they cannot hold the RK liable. They don't know who the driver was and so they are stuffed. You could write to them pointing out that the RK cannot be held liable. If you have the DVLA information then you can be even more positive in your response.

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hustler6969
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 23:09
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QUOTE (Macapaca @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 22:37) *
If I understand correctly you never actually received a NTK? The fact they have used the incorrect details looks suspicious. It is worth writing to the DVLA to see whether they have asked for keeper details. If they haven't then they cannot hold the RK liable. They don't know who the driver was and so they are stuffed. You could write to them pointing out that the RK cannot be held liable. If you have the DVLA information then you can be even more positive in your response.


No, never recieved an NTK.

The 'incorrect' details are the ones I provided in my appeal.

When you say write to DVLA, is that just a letter asking if said company has asked details for said reg?
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Ollyfrog
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 23:42
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There's an email address for DVLA. Sorry, but you'll have to do a search on other threads unless someone else knows it off the top of their heads as I can't remember it.

They have until day 56 to apply for your details and get a correct ntk to you - do the maths for us, when is that? You don't want to be tipping them off about the fail before then else they can just correct it.

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Macapaca
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 00:13
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dsp@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

On my calculation you have another two weeks to get to day 56.

This post has been edited by Macapaca: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 00:23
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Redivi
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 01:41
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I agree with the Glacier2 advice not to contact this company again and only reply to a genuine Letter Before Claim

Not in the slightest bit surprised by the underhand tactics

If you look at the picture of the sign, you will see that the company is Walton Wilkins trading as PPL
He's a notorious former clamper that turned to aggressive ticketing when his business practices were banned

He was behind the Mid-way pop-up car parks (plenty of threads here)
He used to park cars on small patches of what appeared to be waste ground, in front of his sings
Any car that parked alongside was clamped or towed

If the car was particularly attractive, an application would be made to the DVLA to change the registered keeper
The DVLA would oblige and reject objections from the owner because he was, by definition, no longer keeping the vehicle

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13...nding-cars.html
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local...ill-make-231384
https://www.touchbirmingham.co.uk/business/...y-parks/4088726


This post has been edited by Redivi: Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 01:46
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hustler6969
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 23:15
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Right, so just received (on Saturday) an 'NTK' with the slightly 'incorrect' details that I had provided in the first appeal, which suggests they probably didn't contact DVLA?

NTK Page 1:

NTK Page 2:

Where do we go now? Does the incorrect details on NTK invalidate the PCN?

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Macapaca
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 00:03
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As already advised you need to contact the DVLA to see whether they have been contacted for RK details in relation to this PCN.dHave you done that yet?
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 08:15
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1) Its an invoice, nothing "invalidates" an invoice
2) All that happens if the KEEPER might not be liable IF htey failed to contact the DVLA or failed POFA in some other way
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ostell
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 13:01
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So you now ask the DVLA who has requested your data in the period 26th December till the 4th February.

I have a choice of 2 email addresses because they were changing the address. Please let me know which one works.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk


Make sure you identify yourself to the DVLA fully so that they will not query the request. Great when a plan comes together!
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cabbyman
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 14:25
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For use at a later stage:


You could go back to PPL and remind them that they had a duty to mitigate their loss by their operative drawing the driver's attention to the relevant provision on the signage BEFORE s/he left the site. Should it become necessary, you will bring this to the attention of a court as further evidence of the signs being sufficiently vague as to be impossible to form a contract.

See what others say, first!


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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hustler6969
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 20:56
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 13:01) *
So you now ask the DVLA who has requested your data in the period 26th December till the 4th February.

I have a choice of 2 email addresses because they were changing the address. Please let me know which one works.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk


Make sure you identify yourself to the DVLA fully so that they will not query the request. Great when a plan comes together!


To: SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk; SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

Subject: Registered Keeper Data Provision Query

Hi,

I am writing to you as registered keeper of XXXX XXX. My details are as follows:
Name: XXXXX XXXXXXXXX
Address: XX XXXXX XXXX, XXXX XXX, XXXXXXXX-XX-XXX

I would like to know if, and who, has requested my details from the DVLA in the period between 26/12/2018 and 04/02/2019. Please could you respond back to me by email promptly.

Thanks,
XXXXX

____________________________________________--

Is above good - or do I keep it more generic and take out mention of PPL and details/mention of issued PCN?

This post has been edited by hustler6969: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:07
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cabbyman
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 21:15
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No. Just ask them for details of any enquiries against your VRM between the dates.

It's not unusual for a totally different entity to apply the RK details. It possibly gives you another source of breach of PoFA and GRDP.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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hustler6969
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:02
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Okay, edited now, good?
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Ollyfrog
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:11
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They still have until 20th Feb to get a correct ntk to you. That means they have to post it by 18th so I'd send that email next week and simply ask, as Cabbyman says, for any enquires from 26th December 2018 until today's date (18th when you send it)
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hustler6969
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 22:17
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Understood, will do
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