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PCN YELLOW BOX TALGARTH ROAD ISSUED OUTSIDE 28 DAYS- LEASE CAR, advice needed on if can appeal
thevale2019
post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 15:28
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hello

i got caught by the infamous talgarth road yellow box by hammersmith and fulham council turning right . My date of contravention was 19/07/21 and date of notice was 27/08 making it 40 days, ie outside the 28 days time limit. This is a lease car lease under my company name. The pcn is addressed to the company name not mine. Can i appeal on the grounds that they have not sent it me in the 28 day time limit or is this argument invalid as it is a lease car and they have had to contact the finance company to obtain the details. Also does it make a difference that my name isnt on it atall.?

many thanks
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post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 15:28
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Logician
post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 15:51
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This should be in the Council forum, I have asked for it to be moved


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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 16:41
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big difference that your name is not on as the lease co are liable unless the transfer is done correctly , most lease terms over 6 months are not

Only the person named on the PCN is liable Id this your employer? If so them you will need an authority to act on their behalf in this matter and you will need some info from the lease co

When did they first receive a PCN?

When did they make representations in order to transfer liability?

When did the council respond cancelling that PCN?



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thevale2019
post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 19:43
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ok so the company is mine and i am only employee, for some reason my name isnt on there just the company. So the first correspondence i have seen is when it arrived
to me in the post. Do i need to contact the finance company to find out when they received the intial pcn?
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Neil B
post Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 19:49
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QUOTE (thevale2019 @ Mon, 30 Aug 2021 - 20:43) *
Do i need to contact the finance company to find out when they received the intial pcn?

You need to ask everything PMB suggested rolleyes.gif


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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thevale2019
post Tue, 31 Aug 2021 - 08:30
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i have contacted the finance company and they dont have any record of any recent PCNS sent under my vehicle registration, they are sending me a letter to say i can appeal on their behalf should i need it but the PCN is in my company name.

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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 31 Aug 2021 - 09:44
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QUOTE (thevale2019 @ Tue, 31 Aug 2021 - 09:30) *
i have contacted the finance company and they dont have any record of any recent PCNS sent under my vehicle registration, they are sending me a letter to say i can appeal on their behalf should i need it but the PCN is in my company name.


If they don't have a record of PCN's what would you be appealing the lease co must have received a PCN else how did the council get your company name if it is not on the v5c


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thevale2019
post Tue, 31 Aug 2021 - 12:40
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yes thats what i said, looks like the call has been mishandled and theyve since emailed saying the fines det will contact me within 3-5 working days so will wait until i hear back from them.
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cp8759
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 16:26
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What's the name of the lease company?

Incidentally we've never seen H&F send a NoA to a lease company.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 16:26


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hcandersen
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 16:51
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OP, the person who's entitled to make reps is the addressee as stated on the PCN.

In this case it's a company. (Can you be more specific e.g. limited company etc?)

But companies can't write, so this is done by authorised officers/officials of the company on the company's behalf. Not their own behalf, the company's.

You are authorised to act for the company but whatever you submit to the council or any correspondence with the lease company is done in the company's name at all times.

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thevale2019
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 19:22
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Hi both

The lease company is VWFS and the company is a limited company
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hcandersen
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 20:51
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Thanks.

No to refer to your question:

. Also does it make a difference that my name isnt on it atall.?

None at all if the person hiring the vehicle (which as stated previously can be a legal or a physical entity) was the company. Even if you signed the agreement this was on behalf of the company, yes?
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thevale2019
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 21:10
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Yes correct.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 21:40
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Your company is on the hook. Is it landed we do not know if the council do not deal with the PCN to the lease co, NO but lets have answers When did the lease co receive the PCN? When did they make representations naming your co? when did they receive a response And what did they send


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cp8759
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 22:30
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If it's VWFS we know they don't send a copy of the lease to the council, this combined with H&F not sending NoAs puts us on reasonably safe ground.

You could wait for VWFS to come back but to be honest I'd just make a representation to the council, by the time you get the rejection you should have the answers from VWFS and can make an informed choice as to whether to appeal to the tribunal.

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Dear London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham,

We deny liability on the basis that we do not own and have never owned the vehicle concerned. Further to this, the PCN appears to be out of time.

Yours faithfully,

thevale2019
[position in company i.e. company director or whatever]
For and on behalf of [company name limited]

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 22:31


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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 3 Sep 2021 - 14:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 23:30) *
If it's VWFS we know they don't send a copy of the lease to the council, this combined with H&F not sending NoAs puts us on reasonably safe ground.

You could wait for VWFS to come back but to be honest I'd just make a representation to the council, by the time you get the rejection you should have the answers from VWFS and can make an informed choice as to whether to appeal to the tribunal.

-------------------

Dear London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham,

We deny liability on the basis that we do not own and have never owned the vehicle concerned. Further to this, the PCN appears to be out of time.

Yours faithfully,

thevale2019
[position in company i.e. company director or whatever]
For and on behalf of [company name limited]



+1


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thevale2019
post Fri, 3 Sep 2021 - 19:53
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 3 Sep 2021 - 15:59) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 23:30) *
If it's VWFS we know they don't send a copy of the lease to the council, this combined with H&F not sending NoAs puts us on reasonably safe ground.

You could wait for VWFS to come back but to be honest I'd just make a representation to the council, by the time you get the rejection you should have the answers from VWFS and can make an informed choice as to whether to appeal to the tribunal.

-------------------

Dear London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham,

We deny liability on the basis that we do not own and have never owned the vehicle concerned. Further to this, the PCN appears to be out of time.

Yours faithfully,

thevale2019
[position in company i.e. company director or whatever]
For and on behalf of [company name limited]



+1


Thanks I did get a reply from VWFS of sorts just a scan of the original PCN addressed to them dated 27/07 same PCN number as issued to the one I received. Have asked for further details but will do as you have said above in meantime. Thanks everyone for input

This post has been edited by thevale2019: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 - 20:57
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thevale2019
post Fri, 10 Sep 2021 - 13:39
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Got a further update from VWFS


The original notice dated the 28th July 2021 arrived into our offices on the 3rd August 2021.

We then issued a transfer of liability form requesting the fine to be transferred to yourself which was sent on the 4th August 2021.

The duplicated notice dated the 28th July 2021 then arrived into our offices on the 12th August 2021 which we appealed advising we had received this already and our transfer form had not been acknowledged.
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cp8759
post Sat, 11 Sep 2021 - 15:49
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Write back to VWFS:

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Dear VWFS,

Please could you send us a copy of whatever it is that you sent to the council on 4th August 2021?

Yours faithfully,

thevale2019
[position in company i.e. company director or whatever]
For and on behalf of [company name limited]


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thevale2019
post Wed, 15 Sep 2021 - 17:40
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 11 Sep 2021 - 16:49) *
Write back to VWFS:

-------------

Dear VWFS,

Please could you send us a copy of whatever it is that you sent to the council on 4th August 2021?

Yours faithfully,

thevale2019
[position in company i.e. company director or whatever]
For and on behalf of [company name limited]



I have requested a copy of documents sent on 4th in meantime I had emailed back and they sent this


In regards to the below, to this date we have not heard anything from Hammersmith council since our appeal on the 12th August 2021.

As part of our data protection rules that we have in place we do not send any third party authorities any copies of hire agreements as they contain sensitive information that are not required by the authority.


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