PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Ticket from CPM UK Car Park Management
Seaweed
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 12:54
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Member No.: 61,386



Hi,

I'd be grateful of your advice on a ticket I received from CPM UK Car Park Management.

I parked in our work car park, as I do about 3 times a week. The ticket I normally display fell onto the floor - windy day, paper ticket...came back to £100 ticket, £60 if paid within a fortnight.

Probably stupidly, I appealed on the grounds that the ticket had blown onto the floor and I also mentioned that the signage wasn't clear ( at least 10-15 yards from my car ). My appeal failed and I now supposedly have to pay today or it will go up to the £100.

The car park is on private land.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 16)
Advertisement
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 12:54
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Gan
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:00
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



Are they members of the BPA ?
If so, their rejection letter should have included a validation code to make an "independent" appeal to POPLA

This will cost them £27 and even if POPLA reject it, you can ignore the ruling.

If they're not members, ignore any future letters.
The chances that they could take this to court and win are zero.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Seaweed
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:14
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Member No.: 61,386



QUOTE (Gan @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 14:00) *
Are they members of the BPA ?
If so, their rejection letter should have included a validation code to make an "independent" appeal to POPLA

This will cost them £27 and even if POPLA reject it, you can ignore the ruling.

If they're not members, ignore any future letters.
The chances that they could take this to court and win are zero.

Thanks Gan,

No mention of POPLA in the letter. With over 10k posts I imagine you know what you are talking about! I will ignore any further communication from them.

Thanks again.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:35
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



They are not listed in the Approved Operator Scheme (AOS). They won't be able to access the DVLA.

Did you give them contact details?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Seaweed
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:50
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Member No.: 61,386



QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 14:35) *
They are not listed in the Approved Operator Scheme (AOS). They won't be able to access the DVLA.

Did you give them contact details?


I did yes, on the appeal letter. However I am not the registered keeper, my wife is, if that makes any difference.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nigelbb
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 14:00
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,768
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,602



They appear to be members of the BPA Approved Operators Scheme listed under UK Car Park Management Limited under http://www.britishparking.co.uk/AOS-Members

http://www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/index.php

How naughty not to mention the possibility of an appeal to POPLA. They need to be reported to the BPA & the DVLA.

Can the OP scan & upload the charge notice with personal details redacted? It would be interesting to know exactly what the signs in the car park say so could you also provide photos?


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 15:05
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Ah, didn't get as far down as 'U'.

One option will be to demand a POPLA reference.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dp7
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 15:14
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 915
Joined: 1 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,435



Same jokers operationfirestorm is having issues with on his thread.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
operationfiresto...
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 15:59
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 140
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Member No.: 60,061



QUOTE (dp7 @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 16:14) *
Same jokers operationfirestorm is having issues with on his thread.



OH boy! did I hear my name! yes you can see my thread here UK Car Park Management Limited

I can assure you they are members of BPA as far as the BPA are concerned as if there is any doubt then I have an email (more than one) from the BPA acknowledging that fact and they are 'INVESTIGATING' them, that just means they are aware of a complaint and for a brief moment they will pause the dipping of biscuits in their tea! nothing more. No one has a name there either, just a signature 'BPA TEAM' apparently they do not want to be identified.

However there is a larger/broader investigation going on which includes the inland revenue, DVLA, Council, Police, Trading Standards and 'shooooosh' don't tell them!

If I am allowed to offer advice probably not. I would ignore everything they send you. Also smile when you see him/parkee/ticket dude and hand him the job section of the local newspaper (like I did) as he will need it real soon. wink*

Thought I would share something I was emailed by a Technical Services Officer @ Crawley Council today. Interesting their perspective. Isn't it.


Subject: Parking tickets advice

Some general advice on what you can do if you receive a parking ticket.

Types of parking ticket
Penalty Charge Notice

There are two different types of parking ticket and it is important that you are clear about which one you've received. Check the wording carefully – if the ticket is an official notice from your local council or police force then you've been issued a PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE (PCN). Only these two bodies are allowed to issue Penalty Charge Notices and it means that you are being fined for parking illegally on public property. Such an offence is backed up by criminal law and you can be fined or end up in court for non-payment of the fines.

If you have received a Penalty Charge Notice issued by a council or police force then you should refer to the issuing body for advice on what to do next. Most councils will have detailed instructions on their websites outlining how long you have got to pay the fine, how to pay the fine and the penalties involved if you fail to pay within the time limit.

The notice should also contain clear detail of what parking violation you are accused of committing and contain any evidence, such as a photograph, which is being relied upon to prove you committed the offence. Crucially, the PCN should also contain clear instructions of what to do if you want to dispute the fine, along with details of the appeals procedure and the timescales involved.

If you are in any doubt as to what to do when you receive a penalty charge notice, it is always a good idea to seek independent advice from the Citizen's Advice Bureau, or a legal expert. The Law Society can provide details of a solicitor in your area.

Parking Charge Notice

The other type of ticket – and the one we hear from you most about - is one which has been issued by a private parking company. A private parking company is an organisation which has entered into an agreement with a landowner to enforce any parking restrictions he or she chooses to place on their land.

To be clear, when a landowner - for example a supermarket, a hospital or a retail shopping centre - creates a car park, they will set out restrictions usually in a notice displayed on the land which you agree to abide by when you park on that land. By choosing to park on the land it may be implied that you agree to these conditions, particularly if the notice is clear and prominently displayed and you are therefore entering into a contract with the business running the car park.

More often than not, such restrictions will involve a set time limit, a requirement to pay and display or a no-return policy. The terms and conditions of the car park should be displayed clearly and concisely on signs as you enter the car park and at other points across the site, along with information about parking fees and any subsequent charges which could be incurred for failing to comply. If you receive a charge notice you should check that these terms are correctly displayed at the car park in question. If you find they are not, you may wish to write to the company to appeal the charge. Photographs may help.

Legalities
The main difference between an official penalty charge issued by the authorities and a parking charge issued by a private company is that there is nothing in criminal law to support a penalty or fine for parking on private land. Therefore they should not be described as penalties or fines, although many parking operators will label their notices a Parking Charge Notice, which they will also abbreviate to PCN. Make sure you are clear which type of ticket you have received.

In issuing a Parking Charge Notice, the parking operator is relying on the law of contract to make a claim for damages. The amount they ask for is to compensate for you breaching the contract you formed when you parked on the land in question. According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the business, although excessive charges are common. This isn't a criminal matter despite any impression given to the contrary by the operator.

The operator has no right to recover a parking charge from you without first taking you to court, so if you think there has been a mistake and you shouldn't have been issued a ticket, you may wish to dispute the charge with the parking company as soon as possible. You should ask them to provide proof of their case against you. If you fail to reach an agreement with them, then, as with all civil matters, it is up to the parking company to prove their case in court, but it is advisable to seek advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau or a solicitor before things get to this stage. Remember that the parking operator has to prove its case on the balance of probabilities.
It is also important to note that, as things currently stand, the driver of the vehicle is the only person who can enter into a contract with the landowner. Therefore if you were not the person driving you may wish to inform the parking company of this straight away. Just because you are the registered keeper of the car, you are under no legal obligation to provide the parking operator with any further information, as you would be with the police. In particular you do not have to identify the driver or supply his or her name and address.

Indeed if you are certain that you have not parked in contravention of the rules of the car park, you do not have to contact the parking company if you do not wish to do so as the obligation is on the parking company to prove its case. However you should let them know that you contest the notice as if not, you can expect a series of letters from the company itself, debt collectors and solicitors, all warning of court action. However, the reality is that extremely few cases ever reach court because of the difficulties the private company has in proving its case. Consequently, the letters usually stop. Even if a case does reach court, the company may have trouble convincing a judge that the charge is fair.

Appeals
Finally, the British Parking Association, the trade body representing the private parking industry, does set out clear guidelines which state that an appeals process must be put in place by the company, details of which must be included on the charge notices they send out.

If you feel your appeal has not been considered fairly, or hasn't been acknowledged, make sure you seek legal advice before the case progresses further. Watch out for so called appeals procedures which require you to pay the full amount claimed up front before exercising a right of appeal.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Salmosalaris
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 17:11
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,327
Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Member No.: 59,283



Crawley Council need to update their advice


--------------------
Note, I am not legally qualified and not offering legal advice .Liability for application of anything I say lies with the reader
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
operationfiresto...
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 17:13
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 140
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Member No.: 60,061



QUOTE (Salmosalaris @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 18:11) *
Crawley Council need to update their advice



Indeed, please point out and quote the errors, I am building a reply to send to them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 17:20
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,931
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



read it v.quickly (Danger Will Robinson !)

looks pre PoFA


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
operationfiresto...
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 17:23
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 140
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Member No.: 60,061



I find it nuts that the council would send me something out of date. How is anyone supposed to build a case against a company who are sapping 1000s of off people every day, if they cannot even send the correct up to date info.

Press is going to have a field day with this, think im going to start my own TV program LOL
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 21:06
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,751
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



QUOTE (Salmosalaris @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 18:11) *
Crawley Council need to update their advice




Yep, they could get into hot water, wrongly telling people that 'only the driver is liable'!

Here's the more recentAdvice Guide which the CAB are supposed to now refer to (but many local CABs are still referring to older, biased PPC information):

''If you get a parking ticket on private land, you can either pay it, challenge it or ignore it. What you choose to do will depend upon whether you think the charge is justified, who issued the ticket, how you feel about challenging or ignoring it and what may happen if you do.Find out more about your options when you get a parking ticket on private land.''

It also talks about POPLA and is up to date and I believe it had some input from people not on the dark side this time...!

All Councils need to do is give people a one-liner reply with a link to that!



QUOTE (Seaweed @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:54) *
Hi,

I'd be grateful of your advice on a ticket I received from CPM UK Car Park Management.

I parked in our work car park, as I do about 3 times a week. The ticket I normally display fell onto the floor - windy day, paper ticket...came back to £100 ticket, £60 if paid within a fortnight.

Probably stupidly, I appealed on the grounds that the ticket had blown onto the floor and I also mentioned that the signage wasn't clear ( at least 10-15 yards from my car ). My appeal failed and I now supposedly have to pay today or it will go up to the £100.

The car park is on private land.

Thanks in advance for any replies.




To 'Seaweed' from a 'Seagull' (me!).

Well, you now take it to POPLA as per the advice guide information and as per most threads on here (unless this was in Scotland or NI). A legal challenge is needed (NOT a soft appeal for POPLA). Did their rejection letter include POPLA information?

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 21:08
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 22:43
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,931
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



QUOTE
Yep, they could get into hot water, wrongly telling people that 'only the driver is liable'!


well they are right - sort of.
PoFA allows conditional transfer to the RK
its the driver who plays a part in creation of the "relevant obligation" should it exist.

see why they need to update it


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
operationfiresto...
post Thu, 25 Apr 2013 - 10:46
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 140
Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Member No.: 60,061



QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 22:06) *
QUOTE (Salmosalaris @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 18:11) *
Crawley Council need to update their advice




Yep, they could get into hot water, wrongly telling people that 'only the driver is liable'!

Here's the more recentAdvice Guide which the CAB are supposed to now refer to (but many local CABs are still referring to older, biased PPC information):

''If you get a parking ticket on private land, you can either pay it, challenge it or ignore it. What you choose to do will depend upon whether you think the charge is justified, who issued the ticket, how you feel about challenging or ignoring it and what may happen if you do.Find out more about your options when you get a parking ticket on private land.''

It also talks about POPLA and is up to date and I believe it had some input from people not on the dark side this time...!

All Councils need to do is give people a one-liner reply with a link to that!



QUOTE (Seaweed @ Wed, 24 Apr 2013 - 13:54) *
Hi,

I'd be grateful of your advice on a ticket I received from CPM UK Car Park Management.

I parked in our work car park, as I do about 3 times a week. The ticket I normally display fell onto the floor - windy day, paper ticket...came back to £100 ticket, £60 if paid within a fortnight.

Probably stupidly, I appealed on the grounds that the ticket had blown onto the floor and I also mentioned that the signage wasn't clear ( at least 10-15 yards from my car ). My appeal failed and I now supposedly have to pay today or it will go up to the £100.

The car park is on private land.

Thanks in advance for any replies.




To 'Seaweed' from a 'Seagull' (me!).

Well, you now take it to POPLA as per the advice guide information and as per most threads on here (unless this was in Scotland or NI). A legal challenge is needed (NOT a soft appeal for POPLA). Did their rejection letter include POPLA information?


Thanks I am going to send this back to the council! they are ridiculous.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ronie
post Fri, 26 May 2017 - 12:42
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 63
Joined: 24 May 2017
Member No.: 92,160



Did you get this sorted?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 13:25
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here