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No receipt given when using iPad Registration, Correspondence with AOS/BPA Limited
Derek Donovan
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 17:17
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013
From: Cardiff
Member No.: 65,447



In need of advice:
As a matter of interest over the past two weeks I have questioned AOS / BPA about iPad registration systems being used throughout the UK stating:
These systems fail to give receipts in a “Durable Format”: it’s my belief this is a breach of UK consumer Law and EU General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) as the data supplied is being used to access personal data: therefore it is my belief private parking companies by invoicing for overstays using ANPR are distance selling and are in breach of the law.
AOS Reply
Our role is to investigate any complaints about alleged non-compliance with our Code where evidence can be supplied.
Their AOS Investigations Team went on to write: As I am not legally trained, I am not able to answer your question regarding this matter.
I replied:
In case you’re not conversant with the law on Durable Media can I suggest you read the advice given by the Financial Conduct Authority, it can be found here:
https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/durable-medium
Next moving up the scale I got a reply from a Compliance Officer stating:
We are not a regulatory body, and we are not appropriately qualified to determine if any of our members has broken any aspect of the law, whether Consumer or GDPR.
He went on to say: Please note our Code of Practice is not a legal document, and it is up to the members to ensure that they know and understand their own legal responsibilities. We do not enforce these as we are not qualified to do so.
My Reply:
Thank you for your reply: in response I feel you should make yourself familiar with your own code if practice especially 12.2 which states “and any other legislation that applies”.
I was surprised at his reply stating: Subsequently, we advise that anyone who wishes to join the AOS scheme must be aware of their own legal obligations, and they must state as much upon joining.
He went on to state: This is why Code clause 12.1 is worded in that way.
It does not mean that we have the power to investigate breaches of the law. We do not have this power.

I replied:
The use of ANPR Camera’s to sell parking with no one present: be it free parking for an amount of time with charges for over staying comes under distance selling regulations as contained in Consumer Legislation.

I have given you evidence of the law that demands a receipt in a Durable Format: your failure to give me a clear answers just pointing me to your own Code of Practice which confirms my beliefs is unacceptable.
Within my exchange of emails I asked “If you do not audit compliance with the laws does this mean your membership’s systems can be in breach of laws yet by being a member of the BPA Limited ATA can still access personal data from the DVLA.
His final reply stated:
Thank you for your further correspondence.

Anyone who wishes to join the AOS as advised previously undergoes a robust compliance process, we do not, however, have the appropriate qualifications to investigate breaches of the Law. We have also been working with Sir Greg Knight directly to promote the Bill you are referring to.

Considerable time and BPA resource have now been spent repeatedly explaining our stance, and as such, we have no further comment to make on the matter.

Kind regards,

I now need to further this but, in order to stop the ICO and the DVLA suggesting CAB I intend asking for a meeting with Citizens Advice and Trading Standards but where I have difficulty is in contacting the department responsible at the DVLA, there are no telephone numbers or email addresses available on their web site or elsewhere so I could do with some help.
If any member wishes full details of my exchange of emails with AOS less my personal home address etc. just ask.
Regards
Derek Donovan.


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Moved on a little from when I first posted, I’m now 76 but still the private parking industry sickens me along with a toothless government that fails to act to stop them
Back in 2012I took on NGPM and threatening them with court action to pay my PCN (Personal Costs Notice) they paid up.
Derek
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post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 17:17
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bama
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 18:43
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QUOTE
the department responsible at the DVLA

department of which body ?


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Redivi
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 19:15
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I thought the courts were taking the view that these systems were automated processes and outside the scope of the distance selling regulations
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Derek Donovan
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 11:42
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013
From: Cardiff
Member No.: 65,447



These systems are being used by Parking Eye operating parking management in four hospitals for Cardiff &Vale Health Board and by PS24 in a hospital they manage for Cwm Taff Health Board.
As well as these in my area: NGPM in their notorious car park in Talbot Green and at Hemmingway Road in Cardiff.
I’m aware there being operated in Mc Donald’s in Gatwick so I’m assuming these systems are being operated all over the UK.
At best there unfair as they give a motorist no proof of compliance with the PPE’s T&C’s even if they have complied.
At worse if I’m correct failing to give a receipt in a Durable Medium in other words one that can be taken away is illegal no matter how you interpret the law. All it takes is for someone receiving a PCN to challenge asking for evidence of non compliance with the PPC’s T&C’s and let a judge decide if this is legal.
I believe PCV’s fail to keep referenced records, if they do then they are keeping them from the motorist.
I am trying to put this to a DVLA – ATA compliance officer as I did in the past when I used to email Brian Dodge at Brian.Dodge@dvla.gsi.gov.uk to get an immediate response to add to my fight.
I will be taking all this to my MP to put to Sir Greg Knight’s Bill. But in saying this: the PPC’s are invoicing now so it needs to stop now.
I wasn’t impressed when I read a reply from a BPA Compliance Officer stating their working Sir Greg Knight MP. meaning there advising when I have it in writing they are not legally trained to do so.
Thanks
Derek


--------------------
Moved on a little from when I first posted, I’m now 76 but still the private parking industry sickens me along with a toothless government that fails to act to stop them
Back in 2012I took on NGPM and threatening them with court action to pay my PCN (Personal Costs Notice) they paid up.
Derek
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cabbyman
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 12:57
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From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
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Derek, I am currently taking Met Parking to task at Gatwick:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121114&hl=

I am aware that McD's ask for car registration at the till but no written conformation of a validated VRN is given. I wonder if you would be kind enough to post on my thread a form of words that I may use in my POPLA appeal that covers the argument you are making.

Many thanks.


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Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Derek Donovan
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 14:22
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Joined: 24 Sep 2013
From: Cardiff
Member No.: 65,447



Sent a Fast Reply to Cabbyman because his mail box was full if it hasn't arrived please let me know. Derek


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Moved on a little from when I first posted, I’m now 76 but still the private parking industry sickens me along with a toothless government that fails to act to stop them
Back in 2012I took on NGPM and threatening them with court action to pay my PCN (Personal Costs Notice) they paid up.
Derek
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