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38 in 30, Mitigating circumstances
david76
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 08:39
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Morning everyone

Just wanted an expert advice on a NIP received in post. A414 Ongar manned camera.

The NIP and her details are correct.

I a an emergency frontline worker and was meant to do an out of hours shift on Saturday 8:10am.

I was duty bound on the morning of the incident and when I arrived at the place of work in Ongar, it had been shut due to COVID and moved to a nearby hospital which is 15 minutes away.

It was while rushing from Ongar to Epping (1st place to the second), I caught the attention of EO. As far as I know there are signs on A414 coming from Chelmsford to Ongar but not from Ongar towards Epping (might be wrong). The officer was stationed down the road where there is a close and apparently several people have been caught at the same spot.

My question is do I mention these circumstances at the time of filling driver details or afterwards?

Many thanks
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post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 08:39
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The Rookie
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:24
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It sounds like you have no hope to be honest. The situation wasn't one that required you to exceed the limit and no camera warning signs are required.

You'll be offered an awareness course so at least your licence will stay clean.

You can mention them any time you want, but as they are irrelevant at this stage they will be ignored. You could (foolishly in my opinion) let them take the matter to court and then raise it either as a defence (which I don't think it is) or as special reasons not to endorse (perhaps a 5% chance) but lose and it will cost you a lot more.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:25


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david76
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:57
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The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible.

It may not sound mitigating but that was the main reason I was on that road at 8am on a Saturday.

Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal?
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666
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:12
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:57) *
The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible.

So why were you neglecting that duty by doing only 38 rather than, say, 98?
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Jlc
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:19
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:57) *
Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal?

You can ask the Force to consider your circumstances but I rate your chances as slim to none.

There is no formal process other than to take the matter to court. (And I do not believe you have anything that will reduce the impact)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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TryOut
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:26
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:57) *
The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible.

It may not sound mitigating but that was the main reason I was on that road at 8am on a Saturday.

Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal?

I can't see any reason why your "duty" exempts you from a speed limit so it would be a waste of time to appeal on that basis. Some may even think the mitigation "silly" in itself. It is certainly far from credible.

Your patient had an appointment booked for 08:10, you are a few minutes late because of a change in your working arrangements. You should have used that as mitigation for you being late for the appointment.

A speed awareness course or fixed penalty would be the disposal for this.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:27
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:57) *
I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible.

Presumably as quickly as possible safely and legally?

I'm sure the patient waiting a few minutes wasn't going to be an issue - assuming he wasn't late due to having to drive from place one to place two unexpectedly as well. We've had several appointments late or rescheduled because the specialist was elsewhere, it's not exactly 'one off'.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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NewJudge
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:29
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You should be offered a course (cost about £90) for the offence provided (a) you have not done one for an offence that occurred in the three years prior to this one and (b) online courses are being offered in Essex (normal courses are not being held at present). Failing that you will be offered a Fixed Penalty (£100 and three points). Either of those outcomes represents the absolute rock bottom price you will pay. No amount of mitigation will reduce that sum and the only way to attempt to secure a better outcome is to decline both of those options and take the matter to court.

If you take the matter to court you will have to argue that "Special Reasons" apply and that the court should not order your licence to be endorsed and penalty points added. I believe Rookie's estimate of a 5% chance of success is overly optimistic.

Add your explanation if you want to but it will make no difference to the offers you are made.
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david76
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:30
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I wasn't driving a blue light ambulance mate, else would have loved to do that tongue.gif

I always stick to speed limits!

My initial question was do I send the appeal at the same time or separately?
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NewJudge
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:34
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You are not appealing against anything. You will be made the offer(s) I described and they will be unaffected by anything you say. The police have no discretion to make any different or reduced offers. The only choice they have is to discontinue the matter, which is very unlikely.

If you allow the matter to be dealt with in court you will simply be going there to either defend the charge in its entirety (not wise) or ask the court to sentence you with your mitigation in mind. Only if you disagree with the court's decision does an appeal come into play, which will have to be made to the Crown Court.

Whatever you do, be sure to provide your details as the driver within the time allowed.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:41
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The Rookie
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:47
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 11:30) *
I always stick to speed limits!

Erm.......

Your 'plea for leniency' you can return with the fully completed S172 form if you want.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:49
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You might be able to ride some 'COVID goodwill' but legally you don't appear to have any viable defence.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 11:21
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So to summarise, mention the reason you were rushing to the police when you return the form, although very unlikely they may just decide to discontinue the matter, but then accept whatever they offer you, do not choose to take the matter to court, because legally you have no defence and it is very likely that you would end up paying more than the offer from the police, and certainly will not pay any less.


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Kickaha
post Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 01:39
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A bit late with this, but the OP needs to be careful that the wording of the explanation does not lead the police to bump it straight to court.
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TryOut
post Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 09:03
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QUOTE (david76 @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 11:30) *
I wasn't driving a blue light ambulance mate, else would have loved to do that tongue.gif

I always stick to speed limits!

My initial question was do I send the appeal at the same time or separately?

Writing as someone who used to receive these letters, I can say you are wasting your time completely. But don't let that stop you if it makes you feel better.
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