38 in 30, Mitigating circumstances |
38 in 30, Mitigating circumstances |
Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 08:39
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Member No.: 56,817 |
Morning everyone
Just wanted an expert advice on a NIP received in post. A414 Ongar manned camera. The NIP and her details are correct. I a an emergency frontline worker and was meant to do an out of hours shift on Saturday 8:10am. I was duty bound on the morning of the incident and when I arrived at the place of work in Ongar, it had been shut due to COVID and moved to a nearby hospital which is 15 minutes away. It was while rushing from Ongar to Epping (1st place to the second), I caught the attention of EO. As far as I know there are signs on A414 coming from Chelmsford to Ongar but not from Ongar towards Epping (might be wrong). The officer was stationed down the road where there is a close and apparently several people have been caught at the same spot. My question is do I mention these circumstances at the time of filling driver details or afterwards? Many thanks |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 08:39
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:24
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
It sounds like you have no hope to be honest. The situation wasn't one that required you to exceed the limit and no camera warning signs are required.
You'll be offered an awareness course so at least your licence will stay clean. You can mention them any time you want, but as they are irrelevant at this stage they will be ignored. You could (foolishly in my opinion) let them take the matter to court and then raise it either as a defence (which I don't think it is) or as special reasons not to endorse (perhaps a 5% chance) but lose and it will cost you a lot more. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:25 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 09:57
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Member No.: 56,817 |
The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible.
It may not sound mitigating but that was the main reason I was on that road at 8am on a Saturday. Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal? |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:12
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible. So why were you neglecting that duty by doing only 38 rather than, say, 98? |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:19
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal? You can ask the Force to consider your circumstances but I rate your chances as slim to none. There is no formal process other than to take the matter to court. (And I do not believe you have anything that will reduce the impact) -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:26
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
The situation which required me to rush was the first unwell patient on my list was still booked for 8:10am and my list hadn't been postpone. I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible. It may not sound mitigating but that was the main reason I was on that road at 8am on a Saturday. Wouldn't it be silly not to appeal? I can't see any reason why your "duty" exempts you from a speed limit so it would be a waste of time to appeal on that basis. Some may even think the mitigation "silly" in itself. It is certainly far from credible. Your patient had an appointment booked for 08:10, you are a few minutes late because of a change in your working arrangements. You should have used that as mitigation for you being late for the appointment. A speed awareness course or fixed penalty would be the disposal for this. |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:27
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I was not meant to work at the second place and was duty bound to report as quickly as possible. Presumably as quickly as possible safely and legally? I'm sure the patient waiting a few minutes wasn't going to be an issue - assuming he wasn't late due to having to drive from place one to place two unexpectedly as well. We've had several appointments late or rescheduled because the specialist was elsewhere, it's not exactly 'one off'. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:29
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
You should be offered a course (cost about £90) for the offence provided (a) you have not done one for an offence that occurred in the three years prior to this one and (b) online courses are being offered in Essex (normal courses are not being held at present). Failing that you will be offered a Fixed Penalty (£100 and three points). Either of those outcomes represents the absolute rock bottom price you will pay. No amount of mitigation will reduce that sum and the only way to attempt to secure a better outcome is to decline both of those options and take the matter to court.
If you take the matter to court you will have to argue that "Special Reasons" apply and that the court should not order your licence to be endorsed and penalty points added. I believe Rookie's estimate of a 5% chance of success is overly optimistic. Add your explanation if you want to but it will make no difference to the offers you are made. |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:30
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Member No.: 56,817 |
I wasn't driving a blue light ambulance mate, else would have loved to do that
I always stick to speed limits! My initial question was do I send the appeal at the same time or separately? |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:34
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
You are not appealing against anything. You will be made the offer(s) I described and they will be unaffected by anything you say. The police have no discretion to make any different or reduced offers. The only choice they have is to discontinue the matter, which is very unlikely.
If you allow the matter to be dealt with in court you will simply be going there to either defend the charge in its entirety (not wise) or ask the court to sentence you with your mitigation in mind. Only if you disagree with the court's decision does an appeal come into play, which will have to be made to the Crown Court. Whatever you do, be sure to provide your details as the driver within the time allowed. This post has been edited by NewJudge: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:41 |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:47
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I always stick to speed limits! Erm....... Your 'plea for leniency' you can return with the fully completed S172 form if you want. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 10:49
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,505 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You might be able to ride some 'COVID goodwill' but legally you don't appear to have any viable defence.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 11:21
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
So to summarise, mention the reason you were rushing to the police when you return the form, although very unlikely they may just decide to discontinue the matter, but then accept whatever they offer you, do not choose to take the matter to court, because legally you have no defence and it is very likely that you would end up paying more than the offer from the police, and certainly will not pay any less.
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 01:39
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,389 Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Member No.: 38,126 |
A bit late with this, but the OP needs to be careful that the wording of the explanation does not lead the police to bump it straight to court.
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 09:03
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 601 Joined: 7 May 2019 Member No.: 103,734 |
I wasn't driving a blue light ambulance mate, else would have loved to do that I always stick to speed limits! My initial question was do I send the appeal at the same time or separately? Writing as someone who used to receive these letters, I can say you are wasting your time completely. But don't let that stop you if it makes you feel better. |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 15:36 |