Havering PCN misstep Options

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

Hi,



I received two PCNs in October 2019 from Havering Council. All the below applies to both PCNs, as the correspondences were at the same time:



Fast forward to February 2020, I file witness statements on grounds that I made representations within 28 days but did not receive a rejection notice.



The TEC cancelled charges.



Havering write to me asking for supporting evidence of representations that I made.



I email them screenshots with timestamps of the representations.



In early March Havering reply to me by email 'confirming receipt of email and both cases are now on hold pending an investigation. Please allow time for a full response to be sent.'



Fast forward to 18th June Havering write to me the attached: https://ibb.co/SsqcN5W



Now, it seems as though the sender of this letter is not up to date with both cases and is unaware of the TEC's decisions, as well as the email correspondence.



My questions are, 1) What should I do next? and 2) Is there a way to use their misstep to avoid paying for the PCN entirely?



Thank you.

This post has been edited by Hopeful Hopefulson: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 - 16:54

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[stamfordman]

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.

Don't use hosts like photobucket.

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

Done. Thank you.

[stamfordman]

So they've sent a charge certificate - does the PCN number match one of the ones you made a statement on?

If so and given what you say this looks to be an abuse of process and I think the best thing is to tell them so and they must cancel this one.

[PASTMYBEST]

Done. Thank you.

There is an argument to be made. first off it is not for the council to question you re the WS The tribunal would do that after the council refer the case to them. If you can supply evidence that you made representations then the service of the CC is contrary to the regulation and so you should be able to win on that

But your file won't open and we need to see docs to properly advise

[Mad Mick V]

Hang fire.

The OP got 2 PCNs so has a Charge Certificate been sent as regards the other?

We need to see the two PCNs and the OP's representation (both PCNs?).

Mick

[PASTMYBEST]

Telling the council tough at this stage is pointless The only thing they can do is refer to the adjudicator or cancel, They can investigate all they want but that is what must happen in the end

As per Mick

2 x PCN's

2 x CC

2 X revocation notice

2 x letters from council

2 x representations and

2 x proof of sending of representations

[stamfordman]

Telling the council tough at this stage is pointless

I don't see how you can intervene without telling the council - do you mean telling the tribunal? Otherwise the OP is on the way to recycling another OfR.

[PASTMYBEST]

Telling the council tough at this stage is pointless

I don't see how you can intervene without telling the council - do you mean telling the tribunal? Otherwise the OP is on the way to recycling another OfR.

The councils duty is to refer to the tribunal . In this case the council asked for proof that they representations were sent, and that was provided. They should now cancel, but will most likely decide to issue a NOR in both cases. I would not invite them to do this so would do naught else until contact with the tribunal. Who having proof of representations would list the case for appeal where the abuse of process is clear.

Proviso being if what was actually made was an informal challenge so we need docs

[stamfordman]

Proviso being if what was actually made was an informal challenge so we need docs

Yes if the OP ignored notice to owners then that's not good.

OP - did you make formal reps against NTOs? That's why the timeline of docs is important. As it seems they were issued in November and the order for recovery(s) came in February, the timeline seems OK but must be checked.

[cp8759]

Put all the documents in a dropbox or google drive folder, leaving all the dates visible.

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

Thank you guys. All letters, proof and emails here: Docs

This post has been edited by Hopeful Hopefulson: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 - 00:22

[Neil B]

Please don't pm me. I'm not blind and had seen this thread and wondered what connection it had to earlier ones. Is there an earlier thread that might help us understand?

Cos>

Thank you guys. All letters, proof and emails here: Docs

I have no idea what you are trying to show us from that.

Give us a straightforward timeline of what has happened for each PCN ?

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

Neil, please read my initial thread post, should explain enough. All the correspondence can be found via the link.

So they've sent a charge certificate - does the PCN number match one of the ones you made a statement on?

If so and given what you say this looks to be an abuse of process and I think the best thing is to tell them so and they must cancel this one.

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, both PCN numbers match the ones I made a statement on.

My thoughts exactly. But if I do tell them about their misstep, is this likely to lead to them cancelling the entire PCNs? And how shall I do this, shall I write to the TEC or to Havering? Thanks again.

This post has been edited by Hopeful Hopefulson: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 - 01:45

[cp8759]

Make some sub-folders, one for each PCN, so we can easily see what document relates to which PCN

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

That's unnecessary. All letters, proof and files received and sent from either me, the TEC or Havering have the exact same content and are dated exactly the same. The only difference is the date I got the initial parking tickets, just a few days apart from each other. But I responded to both at the same time and received communications on both at the same time. So uploading both would just be a repetition of what's up there already.

[stamfordman]

So where are the notice to owners (NTOs)? In your first post you said you made representations, which I assumed were after receipt of NTOs.

[Hopeful Hopefuls...]

I don't have copies of the NTOs anymore. Everything I have can be found via the link. But yes I made representations after receipt of both NTOs. The dates of the representations, shown via the link, show this.

[stamfordman]

I don't have copies of the NTOs anymore. Everything I have can be found via the link. But yes I made representations after receipt of both NTOs. The dates of the representations, shown via the link, show this.

So did you challenge the PCNs too?

[hcandersen]

I would write to the council.

I refer to PCNs ****** and ***** dated **** and **** respectively. I also refer to corresponding orders dated *** and *** issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre cancelling the respective orders for recovery and charge certificates, copies enclosed.

The council's duty in these cases is clear i.e. to refer the matters to the adjudicator. Instead, you have issued further charge certificates.

Self-evidently, these actions are procedural improprieties and, irrespective of other substantive issues, would require the adjudicator to allow any appeals which I might make.

I cannot explain why the authority have taken these extra-procedural steps, which effectively seek to usurp the role of the adjudicator, but the fact remains that you have. You could of course continue to pursue this matter improperly i.e. issue OfRs, with the inevitable outcomes. Alternatively, on reflection you could decide to cancel the PCNs.

I look forward to receiving confirmation of your decision.

OP, enclose copies of your WSs as well. .