Effective cycle lighting Options

[notmeatloaf]

I ask this knowing I will get some grief, but it's good too see things outside an echo chamber.

One of the interesting things that translates from how doctors and nurses make mistakes to driving is the idea of saccades. This is that when surveying something, be it newly implanted kidney or roundabout, your eye flicks across the scene in three or four movements. Your brain then stitches those together into one picture. If you don't look carefully, especially around the joins, then your brain just fills in what it expects to see there, and you miss the surgical swab in the patient, or the motorcycle on the roundabout.

This is important for all road users, but especially motorcyclists and cyclists because they are more likely to get lost in a stitch. The standard advice is hi viz and flashing lights.

For myself, I commute about 300km a week on a bike, which with hospital shifts tends to be late at night and early morning when the drunk, drugged up, dopey and unlicenced come out to play.

Going back twenty years it was very easy, you put your 4 AA batteries in your light, turned it into full glow and off you went. Cars had halogen headlights, street lamps were all orange sodium, happy days.

Fast forward to now and we have LED street lights, DRLs, xenon lights, chav attempts at xenon lights, and standing out becomes much more difficult.

I have a Proviz vest, hi viz sleeves and gloves, three bright, large front lights and two large bright rear lights, with flourescent yellow panniers. Short of having a man walking in front with a red flag blowing a trumpet, it's impossible to be more visible.

I was knocked off earlier this year, fair enough bad luck. However at 6.30am on Saturday I was knocked off again on a wide, streetlit 20mph road. The driver hit me from behind and didn't even brake until after the impact. They turned out to be unlicenced and uninsured, which wasn't a great start. However according to them I "came out of nowhere".

Now, nowhere is a slight exaggeration compared to cycling along the side of the road lit up like a Christmas tree. However, it did make me realise that I am lit up to about the fullest extent permitted by law and still two drivers have failed to see me just this year.

As it was it was.just cuts and bruises and we agreed a cash amount to repair the bike/beer money and went on our way.

Anyway, I went and bought a light online which promises that no-one will miss you. It arrived the other day and it definitely delivers what it promises - a red strobe with white and blue LEDs mixed in means you definitely.stand out.

I am still in two minds whether to use it. It is, without a doubt overkill for most motorists and I hate the idea of supporting a lighting war, where everyone adds more and more. However, having tried it out it does seem to work, motorists noticeably pass more carefully and with more space - although that may be because they are trying to think of where the nearest hospital is.

I'm really conscious though that as a cyclist you have to think of the lowest denominator - in my case a Pakistani who clearly hasn't mastered the art of driving in cities other than Kabul, because even if they represent 0.01% of motorists, if they plough through you at 30mph it will be scant consolation.

So... as motorists... any thoughts welcome...

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[The Rookie]

Some low end motorbikes have 35W bulbs, also an LED at 5W is as bright as a 55W car headlamp.

[Sparxy]

surely these guys are not taking them out each time the car is MOT'd

Or it could just be that the lights are fixed in one position (a legal position) when fitted, and as soon as there is weight in the car, it goes to pot?

HID's/Throw light everywhere LEDs in reflector headlights are legal when in a fixed position? I know some of the new generation LED bulbs try to prevent throwing light directly out in front, acting more like a standard halogen bulb direct replacement.

Plus the obligatory fog lights to add to the amount of light people have to put out on the road

This post has been edited by Sparxy: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 23:55

[nigelbb]

Care & motorcycles have 50W headlights & 5W/20W rear/brake lights. For cyclists to be seen properly they need to have the same.

Quite obviously they don't, seeing as the whole premise of this thread is that you can get lights many times more noticeable without having to have an alternator fitted to your bike light. You also seldom have the need to see enough road ahead to travel at 70mph.

The whole "cyclists must follow every regulation drivers have to" is the claim of the unimaginative and intellectually lazy. It is quite clearly proportional to have considerably more regulatory burden on drivers than cyclists, if only by accident statistics.

I didn't suggest any regulation just pointed out that purely for self interest if cyclists want to be seen properly they need to use the same size lights as other road users. It's legal to drive a car on sidelights when there is good street lighting but nobody except an idiot does that as it's preferable to have 2 x 50W halogens up front so that you are seen by others. A good starting point for a bicycle would be the legal requirements for a moped as performance is similar & these need a 15W/10W main/dip headlamp.

[DancingDad]

surely these guys are not taking them out each time the car is MOT'd

Or it could just be that the lights are fixed in one position (a legal position) when fitted, and as soon as there is weight in the car, it goes to pot?

HID's/Throw light everywhere LEDs in reflector headlights are legal when in a fixed position? I know some of the new generation LED bulbs try to prevent throwing light directly out in front, acting more like a standard halogen bulb direct replacement.

Plus the obligatory fog lights to add to the amount of light people have to put out on the road

Different bulb types usually require a different reflector, the light from the bulb needs focussing differently.
This is where much of the issue with blinding lights come from, numpties sticking in the wrong bulbs to get more light.
A standard halogen bulb has a silvered cap, all the light comes from sides, generated by a single element within the bulb at a fixed point.
LED replacement bulbs often have a diode at the very top giving out unfocussed light, then LEDs on the sides along the length..... a reflector for halogens does not focus these different position sources correctly.
Similar for HID bulbs, the light is generated along the whole length of the bulb so halogen reflectors do not focus properly.
The numpties "see" more light because the dipped beam cut off is no longer defined, much of the light coming out above the line.

MOT stations should fail scattered lights anyway and should now fail none standard bulb types, not convinced they do.

Proper LED or HID lights should not be a problem, bright but not shining at other drivers.
Having said that, some cars do scatter, the lights on new Minis always seem to light up my rear view mirror when one is behind me in a queue.
Poorly adjusted lights of any type add to the problem. As do aftermarket DRLs that do not dim/switch off when lights are on.

[Neil B]

the lowest denominator - in my case a Pakistani who clearly hasn't mastered the art of driving in cities other than Kabul,

How did you know he was from Pakistan, given that Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan?

Because I couldn't be bothered to look up the capital of Pakistan.

Is as far as I got in this thread and your credibility (working in the NHS FFS !?) just left the building.

[notmeatloaf]

I studied sciences and maths at school. I work in a hospital, not running pub quizzes.

"Doctor, I need to review this patient. His Hb has dropped significantly, is tachycardic with sats of 88 and systolic of 178. His GCS is 14. I think he is a candidate for paed cardiac ICU."

"Never mind that man, look here, 13 across, capital of North Korea, 9 letters with two 'y's."

Is something that has never happened.

[KH_]

I don't cycle anymore but when I did I had a set of See Sense Icon+ lights.
You definitely got seen with those.

They link to your phone via bluetooth so you can change flash patterns and brightness, update software etc.
Not cheap but a good set of lights.

Not sure why they have a theft alarm, your phone will alert you if the bike moves (bluetooth range). Sorry, not leaving a £100+ set of lights on the bike unattended!

[jay.dee]

I do 50 miles a week, and use a 'head' light, as well as the usual lights front and back.
The light atop the head is great for:
* redundancy if one of the other lights fail
* you can direct it into the view of a motorist who potentially hasn't seen you
* helping you stand out - 2 moving lights at different positions in the same space distinguish you from other single lights, particularly in a built up area.

[cabbyman]

Bear in mind that a single light mounted on your head can make you appear further away than you actually are.

[Mat_Shamus]

I've cycled on and off most of my life but very few and far between on roads at night or poor visibility conditions.

I agree with your initial post though. Now lights are all much brighter than they used to be, the glare and extra brightness makes anything that's not as bright even less visible. That's why in 30mph limits, with street lights i use my position lamps (side lights) instead when driving so it makes anyone crossing the road or cycling near me more visible to other road users.

I'm pretty sure my bicycle falls foul of the lighting regulations. It's not an "approved" front light and i have no pedal reflectors ad it's a fairly modern bicycle.
But saying that i'm as sensible as possible so i can be seen without creating any problems for other road users.

A small, slow flashing white LED on the front nearside on the handlebars
A small LED torch on a low brightness setting and set to a constant "on" and aimed downwards towards the road and tested to ensure doesn't cause any glare to oncoming traffic

Rear is a small slow flashing red LED on the rear seatpost
An approved (i think it is at least) Cateye red LED cluster on the pannier rack set to constantly on and is quite bright without being blinding.

A yellow safety vest with reflective strips
Yellow reflective bands on my wrist to make hand signals more visible.
Tyres with white sidewalls that react to light
Reflective tape on some parts of the frame

But despite all of this i've almost been knocked off my bike a few times at night with a common excuse being "i didn't see you" and on one occasion almost knocked off by a car that came out a give way at night with no lights on at all.

[cabbyman]

Another example today:

I was waiting to turn right to exit a junction. Vehicles from my left came up a hill in such away that dipped beam appeared to be on full beam. Being that early twilight time when light is reducing slightly, the front car coming up the hill didn't have lights but the one behind did. Those lights dazzled me to such a degree that the Smart Car (with the un-smart driver!) was totally invisible to me for a few moments.

[bill w]

I do 50 miles a week, and use a 'head' light, as well as the usual lights front and back.
The light atop the head is great for:
* redundancy if one of the other lights fail
* you can direct it into the view of a motorist who potentially hasn't seen you
* helping you stand out - 2 moving lights at different positions in the same space distinguish you from other single lights, particularly in a built up area.

I have real concerns about cyclists using head/helmet lights.
I may have mentioned this on here before;
One dark evening earlier this year, I rounded a bend on the way over to Sheffield, to be met by a small group of cyclists coming towards me.
There was no danger of not seeing them, as the front one had at least, 3 forward facing ultra bright lights, some pointing quite high, as well as a couple of flashing front lights lower down. I've no idea how many were in the group, as I was suddenly completely blinded, far more so than by a car's lights on main beam.
In addition to this lot, the leading cyclist also sported an ultra bright pencil beam head/helmet light, which they used to stare into my face through the windscreen; all this on a slightly drizzly night.

Fortunately I wasn't being followed, as I stood on the brakes, as I'd no idea at all what might be on my side of the road in front of me.
It's just as well I did, as otherwise I'd have taken out a cyclist going in my direction. They were riding sensibly and had good front and rear lights, but were totally invisible to be due to the idiot(s) coming the other way.

I wouldn't have had an issue seeing the cyclist on my side of the road, if it had been a car/lorry coming towards me.
Also, a single car coming towards me would be travelling much faster than a group of bikes going up hill, so the disturbance to my vision would have been much more transient.
It was some time before my night vision returned to anything like normal.
Yes I was travelling cautiously due to the drizzle at night, on a road I know has many cyclists.

[notmeatloaf]

These stories always negate the fact that drivers routinely come round a corner to a driver who forgets to dip their lights yet still manages to continue driving without doing an emergency stop or ploughing into the law abiding road user who is always immediately in front of the driver.

There should be a scientific study about why drivers can cope with incoming cars on full beam, yet struggle so much with a cyclist fitted with lights less than 5% of the wattage, and why all the encounters coincide with doing an emergency stop to avoid a certain collision.

For my part I have seen cyclists with all types of lights including multiple front flashing strobes but I have never been blinded thanks to the presence of two very bright headlights. It sounds a very concerning phenomenon though.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 22:12

[Mat_Shamus]

I cycle now and then myself as mentioned but i really dislike the helmet lights. If they were a really dim light, with a frosted front lens so there was no glare they would be fine but often they are extremely bright.
They may be approx 5% the wattage of a car's headlights but the Candela they project is often as dazzling as a car on full beam

I usually see them about the city more. I just don't understand why it needs to be so bright and why it needs to be fitted to the helmet rather than just fitting a secondary front light, or taking an extra battery with you (i do both of these)

The helmet light shines where they look and although that may benefit the cyclist on really dark roads, i don't see how it's any benefit in an area with street lighting.

[DancingDad]

These stories always negate the fact that drivers routinely come round a corner to a driver who forgets to dip their lights yet still manages to continue driving without doing an emergency stop or ploughing into the law abiding road user who is always immediately in front of the driver.

There should be a scientific study about why drivers can cope with incoming cars on full beam, yet struggle so much with a cyclist fitted with lights less than 5% of the wattage, and why all the encounters coincide with doing an emergency stop to avoid a certain collision.

For my part I have seen cyclists with all types of lights including multiple front flashing strobes but I have never been blinded thanks to the presence of two very bright headlights. It sounds a very concerning phenomenon though.

Headlights on main beams rarely startle or indeed blind on unlit roads.
Simple is that you see them coming, the corner is lit up well before the vehicle rounds the bend and if they are not dipping, you are slowing, looking away (and hitting your own blinders to remind them of good manners).
It's a relatively spread light as well, you don't get a single high intensity point shining straight into your eyes
I've ended up slowing but not had to emergency stop.
But I have been blinded by cycle LEDs, far less power but oh so bright when directly pointed at your eyes... often by a twassock with a powerful, flashing version on their helmet.

[bill w]

Headlights on main beams rarely startle or indeed blind on unlit roads.
Simple is that you see them coming, the corner is lit up well before the vehicle rounds the bend and if they are not dipping, you are slowing, looking away (and hitting your own blinders to remind them of good manners).
It's a relatively spread light as well, you don't get a single high intensity point shining straight into your eyes
I've ended up slowing but not had to emergency stop.
But I have been blinded by cycle LEDs, far less power but oh so bright when directly pointed at your eyes... often by a twassock with a powerful, flashing version on their helmet.

Personally, I've only ever had to slow that harshly, due to oncoming lighting, on that one occasion.
For the most part, I consider it a personal failure if I need to brake harshly unexpectedly, as I should really have anticipated better what was going on in front of me.
I guess some of that comes from 40+ years on a motorbike; you do seem to get a bit of a 6th sense.

In this case it's about the intensity and direction for sure, but also about duration.
A car coming the other way is likely to be doing a similar speed to yourself, and you pass in the night so to speak.
Your night vision is certainly affected, but is regained to a reasonable level fairly quickly.
A cycle going comparatively slowly, under the specific circumstances I described, is more akin to someone standing at the side of the road deliberately shining a spotlight in your eyes. (which is effectively what they were doing, staring into my face whist wearing a headtorch.)

As someone who used to spend quite a bit of time caving, you quickly learned not to look directly at someone's face when speaking to them, whist wearing a miners caplamp.
If a cyclist feels the need to use a helmet light, then that's fine by me, but please have courtesy for other road users; we all have to learn to share the roadspace safely.

This post has been edited by bill w: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 01:51

[emanresu]

Lik KH_ I've the See Sense Icon+ lights. The "theft" feature is really a built-in motion sensor and the feature can also send an emergency text through your mobile if you are hit. Useful if you are getting knocked off as frequently as you say

I thought they were expensive until I saw these. Perhaps a word to Santa.

MonkeyLectric MonkeyLight Pro

There may be this option coming up too but as it is a Kickstarter funded one, it may never see the light of day [pun]

Pix Backpack for cyclists

This post has been edited by emanresu: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 07:55

[notmeatloaf]

Headlights on main beams rarely startle or indeed blind on unlit roads.
Simple is that you see them coming, the corner is lit up well before the vehicle rounds the bend and if they are not dipping, you are slowing, looking away (and hitting your own blinders to remind them of good manners).
It's a relatively spread light as well, you don't get a single high intensity point shining straight into your eyes
I've ended up slowing but not had to emergency stop.
But I have been blinded by cycle LEDs, far less power but oh so bright when directly pointed at your eyes... often by a twassock with a powerful, flashing version on their helmet.

Indeed, but here it is the truly remarkable feat of totally blinding a driver by means of an "ultra bright pencil beam head/helmet light".

I can quite believe they are annoying, but for a small torch to wipe out all vision so that a driver can't even see other cyclists immediately in front of them is either remarkably unlucky, or a remarkable exaggeration.

I'm always amazed at the scrapes my friends who don't cycle get into with cyclists, all of which end with them almost running the cyclist over if it wasn't for their amazing driving skills. I can't say in fourteen years of driving I have ever had the same.

[DancingDad]

...........I can quite believe they are annoying, but for a small torch to wipe out all vision so that a driver can't even see other cyclists immediately in front of them is either remarkably unlucky, or a remarkable exaggeration.
...

Get any reasonably powerful LED torch, get a friend to shine it in your face at night, can be some distance away, time how long before the spots go and night vision returns.

It is that the light is concentrated into a single beam that is the problem, when it is directed directly into eyes.
I have an 11w LED floodlight on the back of the house.... lights up the garden without issue, can't look directly at the light source but not dazzled looking in the direction of the light.
I have a pen torch powered by two AA batteries with a single "cree" type LED in a tight reflector, lights the end of the garden with ease but only in a small pool of light.
If I look towards the torch, it is simply a bright light point, until it shines in eyes, then it is blinding, cannot see anything behind or alongside the light.
Or go to an extreme for a small point of light... laser pointers, often only small battery powered but can distract pilots, even harm their eyes.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 - 09:40

[Unzippy]

I have real concerns about cyclists using head/helmet lights.
I may have mentioned this on here before;
One dark evening earlier this year, I rounded a bend on the way over to Sheffield, to be met by a small group of cyclists coming towards me.
There was no danger of not seeing them, as the front one had at least, 3 forward facing ultra bright lights, some pointing quite high, as well as a couple of flashing front lights lower down. I've no idea how many were in the group, as I was suddenly completely blinded, far more so than by a car's lights on main beam.
In addition to this lot, the leading cyclist also sported an ultra bright pencil beam head/helmet light, which they used to stare into my face through the windscreen; all this on a slightly drizzly night.

Fortunately I wasn't being followed, as I stood on the brakes, as I'd no idea at all what might be on my side of the road in front of me.
It's just as well I did, as otherwise I'd have taken out a cyclist going in my direction. They were riding sensibly and had good front and rear lights, but were totally invisible to be due to the idiot(s) coming the other way.

I wouldn't have had an issue seeing the cyclist on my side of the road, if it had been a car/lorry coming towards me.
Also, a single car coming towards me would be travelling much faster than a group of bikes going up hill, so the disturbance to my vision would have been much more transient.
It was some time before my night vision returned to anything like normal.
Yes I was travelling cautiously due to the drizzle at night, on a road I know has many cyclists.

Everyone lived to see another a day without accident.
The lights did their job.