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48J PCN on yellow zig zag line on School Summer holidays, Camera enforcement sent PCN for halting for few seconds on yellow zig
AJKPCN
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 09:18
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Hello experts,

Please help. You guys have been fantastic.

Location: 36CV1 Cecil Road (Ashmole Academy) N14
Contravention: 48J Stopped in a restricted area outside a school

I got camera enforcement PCN for stopping at yellow zig zag line outside Ashmole Academy, Cecil Road, N145RJ. I was coming out of Academy and halted for hardly 30-40 seconds. I don't remember exact reason but there is lot of roadwork on junction next to Academy entrance. I didn't have any intention to stop or park but must have halted there. I remember there was a car behind me that overtook me just outside entrance.

I got PCN out of blue and realised that there is a camera which is snooping on people even on school holidays.

I find it really unfare when operator looked like looking for opportunity to issue a PCN when halt was hardly not even a minute and that also on holidays.

School is off and there was roadwork on junction next to school so it must have caused me to stop. I am attaching link to all photographs of PCN, you can see man at work sign in contavening photograph and video. Also, link to GSV. Also attaching pcn challenge I have sent to council.

I have removed all personal details and trimmed video showing reg plate but should give full idea of whats the issue

Documents:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=11RV...U1NW8dn3v5rIIxV

GSV:

Cecil Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4gCnHhbnbdjwPQyt6


Pls help how to deal with these bullies. I am really boiling with this overjealous behaviour to make money out of us when I had no intention to stop or park and not posing any danger to anyone.

Sorry for rant but hope you will understand my frustration.

This is what I sent online while challenging, pls pardon me if it's not perfect or I should've come to pepipoo before challenging it. Never been in this situation before.


"
Hi,

I have received this parking notice and would like yo contest it.
There was roadwork with new water pipe installation going on the crossing between cecil road and Arlington road next to Ashmole Academy. You can see the man at work sign board stuck to signpost in the photograph and video as well. There were temporay traffic light in operation on Arlington road but none on cecil road on Academy side.

You need to be careful while approaching this junction because access is restricted.

I haven't stopped on yellow lines at all. My car was in middle of roadand must have slowed down to halt for few seconds before approaching junction due to heavy machinery on crossing.

I feel that camera enforcement is working too hard to protect children from school who are on School Holidays at present. I neither contravened any rules by being vigilant on junction nor I posed any danger to students when school is closed. I was clearly in the middle of road with only shadows on yellow lines as I had no intention to stop when full Ashmole Academy car park is empty where I was coming from.

This week, work is complete on junction and moved ahead on Arlington road. I am attaching photo of completed patches of work and more going on next to junction.

I hope these details will make sense to a reasonable person.
Can this be cancelled please?

I am planning to go till adjudicator as I feel this was not in spirit of real parking enforcement.

Thanks
Ajay


"

Thank you
Ajay

This post has been edited by AJKPCN: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 09:28
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post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 09:18
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stamfordman
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 10:03
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Let's see what they reply with - in my opinion you have a good chance at adjudication on this given the roadworks. The video shows you stopping in front of some roadwork signage waiting for something - what though you don't seem to remember - it would help if you could be more clear. Are the roadworks still there?
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AJKPCN
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 10:37
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 11:03) *
Let's see what they reply with - in my opinion you have a good chance at adjudication on this given the roadworks. The video shows you stopping in front of some roadwork signage waiting for something - what though you don't seem to remember - it would help if you could be more clear. Are the roadworks still there?


Hi stamford,

Thanks for your quick message. Yes roadwork is still there but moved up the road. The patch on junction is complete and i have sent them photo of completed patch and exiting work.

Infact, i was taking pics of roadwork and it spooked the work guys why am I recording. They thought I am one of those over vigilant nut case who might report them smile.gif.
He got worried when I showed him snooping camera and told about PCN. He said his car was parked whole day here a day before 9th aug and he might get a ticket to his company biggrin.gif.

He may be safe though because he was right below camera where its hard to zoom may be. Anyway that's a different story and distraction.

Thank
Ajay
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Mr Meldrew
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 11:27
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 10:03) *
Let's see what they reply with - in my opinion you have a good chance at adjudication on this given the roadworks. The video shows you stopping in front of some roadwork signage waiting for something - what though you don't seem to remember - it would help if you could be more clear. Are the roadworks still there?

+1
Plainly, there cannot be an outright prohibition on stopping on school entrance restrictions as that would be plain daft. Perhaps you were unable to proceed for a number of obvious reasons related to the ongoing road works ahead that could be considered as stopped in the course of driving. Whether you are unable to recall the exact reason for stopping is irrelevant in my opinion, because it is incumbent upon the Council to provide sufficient evidence of a contravention, and I believe that they have not done so in this case.


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hcandersen
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 15:54
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Whether you are unable to recall the exact reason for stopping is irrelevant in my opinion, because it is incumbent upon the Council to provide sufficient evidence of a contravention, and I believe that they have not done so in this case.

Sorry, but not correct. It is well established law that if an owner wishes to claim an exemption from a prohibition then the burden falls on them, not the enforcing authority. So the OP has to say something, even if it is couched in terms of 'to the best of my recollection'.

But the OP gives the impression of using this entrance regularly, or if not they should say so. So they would have exited here before. And did they stop or whatever?

Slightly fewer of the editorial jibes at the council pl and more of the plain and simple story.

And by the way(!) you were not stopped ON the markings, you were not even stopped within the virtual area created by the furthest extent of the zig-zags from the kerb, so this argument can also be advanced in support. Yes we know that adjudicators blow hot and cold on this, but each case turns on its own facts.

So, I stopped on the carriageway beyond the area demarcated by the furthest extent of zig-zags and therefore was not stopped on the markings. But even if one were to take the view that the effect of the no stopping prohibition extends to the carriageway centre-line (which I would argue is not a correct interpretation of the Signs regulations) then as such an interpretation would in effect catch any vehicle stationary for any purpose, this would clearly not be the intent of the prohibition and extensive exemptions must apply. I believe these apply in my case because......
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stamfordman
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 16:07
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I agree HCA but unless you are advocating making a follow up rep to the one submitted all we can do is wait for the reply for now.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 19:37
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What ever the reason for the stop it was clearly not for the mischief that the restriction is in place to stop.


The sign prohibits stopping on the marking, you were not on the markings


2160322053

The appellant appeared before me today.
The allegation in these proceedings was that this vehicle stopped in restricted area outside a school.
The appellant raised the issue of signage submitting that according to the sign stopping was prohibited on school entrance markings he not stopping on such markings but in the middle of the road.
I agreed with the council that this restriction extended to the middle of the road but on the basis of signage at the location it did not it only applying where a vehicle stopped on markings and I was not satisfied that such signage clearly indicated the ambit of the restriction that was in force.
I found against this background that the contravention had not been proved.
The appeal was accordingly allowed.


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Mr Meldrew
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 20:23
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 15:54) *
Whether you are unable to recall the exact reason for stopping is irrelevant in my opinion, because it is incumbent upon the Council to provide sufficient evidence of a contravention, and I believe that they have not done so in this case.

Sorry, but not correct. It is well established law that if an owner wishes to claim an exemption from a prohibition then the burden falls on them, not the enforcing authority. So the OP has to say something, even if it is couched in terms of 'to the best of my recollection'.

In case you hadn’t noticed, the OP did say something and this was not couched in delicate terms, “[My car] must have slowed down to halt for few seconds before approaching junction due to heavy machinery on crossing.” Halting due to heavy machinery on the crossing is not one of the legally enforceable reasons. Further, being prevented from proceeding at road works is circumstances beyond a driver’s control as is halting to avoid being squashed by heavy machinery (whichever were the case) are exemptions under s74(2)(b) whether or not this was understood by the OP, but he certainly did claim an exemption to the best of his ability. For this reason I stand by my opinion that being unable to recall “the exact” reason for stopping is irrelevant, or my opinion that it is incumbent upon the Council to provide sufficient evidence of a contravention against one of the legally enforceable reasons which I believe they have not done.


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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hcandersen
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 20:36
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And I stand by mine.

No crossing or heavy machinery in view is a bit of a hurdle.

C'est la vie.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 20:39
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baroudeur
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 11:59
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The photos posted show the car entering the academy not exiting as the OP stated. This seems to contradict the premise that progress was obstructed by roadworks.

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 12:04
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AJKPCN
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 12:18
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 12:59) *
The photos posted show the car entering the academy not exiting as the OP stated. This seems to contradict the premise that progress was obstructed by roadworks.

Hi barodeur,

Car was exiting from gate and approaching the junction. This distance between gate and junction is hardly 100 meter. If u see, car faces the roadwork sign and not other way round. Hope it helps the situation.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Aug 2019 - 12:35
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The video shows you stop, it does not show any reason for the stop, but there are road work signs in situ. you are perhaps 20 metres from the junction. A car pulls up behind you but you say they overtook you. If that be the case they did not have to stop, so you must explain


A stop for traffic must be allowed as the Zig Zags stretch all the way up to the give way


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Mr Meldrew
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 11:14
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Here are some tribunal decisions that may help you. I have no doubt that contradictory views could be found, but basic points to note are that in each case there was no evidence of any apparent reason for the vehicle to stop, i.e. no passengers getting into or out of the vehicle, no evidence of the claimed exemption, only some evidence to support it. It seems simply that they preferred the appellant’s evidence to the council’s, and they found him/her honest and reliable. If the cctv does not show the overtake, why raise it, it also doesn’t show that the other car did not have to halt for a few seconds due to heavy machinery.

The risk is yours and I may be unable to write any appeal currently.

2160512150
Contravention Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc
Decision Date 23 Jan 2017
Adjudicator Teresa Brennan
Appeal decision Appeal allowed

Mr attended today. He was the driver on 9th November 2016. His wife, is the registered keeper of the car.

Mr does not dispute that the car was stopped in a restricted area outside a school. Mr states that his car was stopped for only so long as necessary to allow oncoming traffic to proceed. Mr lives in Richmond Road a short distance from the school. He was no his way home having taken his own children to school. The children do not go to the school in Richmond Road. Mr states that he would have no reason to stop the car in Richmond Road other than to wait for oncoming traffic as he was going home and he could park the car on the drive to his property.

I have seen the CCTV footage. The car stops at 08:45:00. At 08:45:12 the camera focuses on the timeplate at the location. The footage ends at 08:45:16. The footage shows a car parked in front of the appellant’s car. There is no evidence of any oncoming vehicle on the footage however I accept the appellant’s evidence that the only reason he had for stopping was to wait for traffic. Mr explains that sometimes approaching cars stop to park to drop off children at the school.

I allow this appeal because I find that the reason that the car was stopped to wait for oncoming traffic.

2180485662
Contravention Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc
Decision Date 09 Jan 2019
Adjudicator Michael Oliver
Appeal decision Appeal allowed

The appellant was represented by Mr Dishman. The Enforcement Authority did not attend.

The appellant contended that the vehicle had stopped as there was oncoming traffic and the driver had to stop to avoid an accident and to ensure smooth traffic flow.

The Enforcement Authority resisted the appeal

It is correct that the CCTV footage does not depict oncoming traffic. However, the CCTV footage did not reveal any apparent reason for the vehicle to stop; no passengers get into or out of the vehicle and the driver is not depicted speaking to anyone. The footage corroborates the appellant’s consistent assertion (in representations to the Enforcement Authority and in a signed statement before me) that the operative reason for stopping was traffic ahead.

Based on the evidence I am satisfied that the operative reason for stopping was traffic ahead. I find that the appellant has established that the exemption (prevention of an accident) has been made out.

2180489062
Contravention Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc
Decision Date 14 Jan 2019
Adjudicator Carl Teper
Appeal decision Appeal allowed

The Appellant has attended his appeal I find him to be an honest, convincing and consistent witness I believe what he tells me, the Authority is not represented. The Authority’s case is that the Appellant’s vehicle was stopped in a restricted area outside a school when prohibited in Richmond Road on 15 November 2018 at 08.35.

The Appellant’s explanation is that he stopped due to congestion ahead of his vehicle; I have considered the evidence and watched the CCTV footage and I find that the Appellant's vehicle was stopped due to traffic ahead of his. The CCTV footage shows that there are two parked vehicles on the other side of the road, one in front and one behind the Appellant's vehicle.

I find the CCTV footage provided by the Authority is too short and limited to rebut the Appellant's explanation.

?
Contravention Stopped in a restricted area outside a school etc
Decision Date ?
Adjudicator ?
Appeal decision Appeal allowed

Barnet council provide a very short section of CCTV footage taken on 19 October 2016 at 08:46. It shows Mrs D’s car, manoeuvring backwards and forwards in Whitings Road. As part of that manoeuvre, it is captured being momentarily stationary on a school crossing.

Mrs D’s account is that she was simply manoeuvring to pass congestion ahead while she decided the best way in which to proceed to work. In the event, she made a U turn, although the CCTV footage is far too short to demonstrate that.

It is entirely appropriate that enforcement authorities should look to enforce school entrance restrictions, and they are entitled to do so by camera. However, they do still have to provide sufficient evidence of a contravention. I do not find that they have done so in this case. As noted above, the CCTV footage shows the car stopped only as part of a driving manoeuvre. The footage confirms at least part of Mrs D’s account that there is congestion ahead, and her activities are entirely consistent with her account of attempting to manoeuvre past those.

The CCTV footage is in fact so brief that it unfairly does not show the whole of the incident that could support Mrs D’s version of events.

In any event, on the evidence provided, I am satisfied that the evidence shows nothing more than Mrs D carrying out a driving manoeuvre and being forced to stop as part of that manoeuvre. That is insufficient to demonstrate a “parking” or even a “stopping” contravention.

As the contravention is not proved I allow the appeal.

This post has been edited by Mr Meldrew: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 13:13


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I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 11:27
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Lets be clear you did stop within the area the council claim and the adjudicators seem to accept is the restricted area. You can argue the sign says on the markings and you were not.


You can argue that an exemption applies as you had to stop for reasons beyond your control. When you claim an exemption the burden falls on you to prove it applies. This is to the civil standard of " balance of probability"


Now I think that an explanation, with no rebuttal from the council will be enough. There is no evidence of the mischief the restriction was designed to prevent. But if as you say the car from behind overtook you the council will likely have rebutted your claim so to advance it you need more.

excepting the position of te car the wording of the regs and the sign, the council have prima facia evidence of the contravention.

From the evidence we can see I would appeal this all the way, But I will not advise you to risk your money nor would I help in drafting representations and an appeal unless the overtaking statement is satisfactorily explained


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Mr Meldrew
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 12:30
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OP, are you a cautious driver? Not everyone is.


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AJKPCN
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 16:40
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Thank you everyone. Yes, I am cautious driver and many times there are car cars overtaking me. Mostly Just trying to be in speed limit that may be frustrating for some.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 18:19
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QUOTE (AJKPCN @ Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 17:40) *
Thank you everyone. Yes, I am cautious driver and many times there are car cars overtaking me. Mostly Just trying to be in speed limit that may be frustrating for some.


You stopped a car stops behind you, then you say they overtook you, So why did you not move off. The answer to this is crucial


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AJKPCN
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 21:28
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Hi Pastmybest, I moved off but straight after they overtook me. It happened so quick in few seconds and I wasn't even aware any camera or of what it will come out as. I don't live around there and going there for last 2 weeks only.

What pinched me is that school is off and they still sent PCN. Clearly I had no intention to even park or come out of car all. I was just heading my way. Still going there daily n see that camera with bit let down expression.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 21:39
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You stopped WHY WHY WHY


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AJKPCN
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:39
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I have explained it. Just looking at roadwork ahead. Infact it was a slowdown to an halt. I can't control behaviour of car behind me. May be he didn't see it and moved...I just followed. Only thing that might have prompted overtake was that I was still little far from junction.
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