Staffs Uni parking ticket, Received in March now received court claim form |
Staffs Uni parking ticket, Received in March now received court claim form |
Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 16:57
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 22 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,015 |
So in March i went to Staffs Uni for the first time to complete an exam. I pulled into the car park where i parked my vehicle in a way matching multiple other vehicles in the carpark. It was a gravel car park with no marked bays, and my vehicle was in no way obstructing any other vehicle. I returned after my exam to find a ticket stating vehicle 'obstructively parked' from district enforcement. At this point i took pictures of the ehicle as it was parked, showing that it was not obstructing any other vehicle, and also that its a gravel car park, and other vehicles had parked in the same fashion.
When i got home i used district enforcements appeal service to email an appeal along with my photographic evidence. I then received a response saying that they required my home address to which i replied i disnt see why this qas necessary at this point. The only response i had to this was that they would get my details from the dvla and i left it at this. Then this morning i have received a court claim form from northampton University stating a claim against me for breaching the terms of parking at staffs uni. I dont know how to progress at this point? I know that my vehicle was not obstructing any other vehicle as the parking ticket suggests, however yhey have already increased the cost signifficantly? Many thanks in advance. |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 16:57
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 17:13
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
They do lose in court but will take it all the way. There was a case on here a while back - I'll see if I can dig it out.
I know that my vehicle was not obstructing any other vehicle as the parking ticket suggests An element of subjectivity perhaps... I dont know how to progress at this point? Acknowledge the claim and start pulling your defence together. (Enter a blank defence at the moment) ...and some irony. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 17:26
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,053 Joined: 20 May 2013 Member No.: 62,052 |
So in March i went to Staffs Uni ... Then this morning i have received a court claim form from northampton University Do you really mean Northampton Uni? Or that the claim came from Northampton County Court Business Centre, which is the central clearing house for small claims across England and Wales? Who is the actual claimant? |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 17:32
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 901 Joined: 1 Apr 2017 Member No.: 91,235 |
Before receiving a claim form, you should have received a letter of claim (often known as a letter before claim or letter before action) in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims from the Claimant or its solicitors.
Did you? If not, can you think of any reason why not (e.g. have you failed to keep the vehicle's V5 details up to date)? If there is no good reason for you not receiving a letter of claim, mention the Claimant's failure to send one in your defence. |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 18:04
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 22 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,015 |
So in March i went to Staffs Uni ... Then this morning i have received a court claim form from northampton University Do you really mean Northampton Uni? Or that the claim came from Northampton County Court Business Centre, which is the central clearing house for small claims across England and Wales? Who is the actual claimant? I meant Northampton County court my apologies Before receiving a claim form, you should have received a letter of claim (often known as a letter before claim or letter before action) in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims from the Claimant or its solicitors. Did you? If not, can you think of any reason why not (e.g. have you failed to keep the vehicle's V5 details up to date)? If there is no good reason for you not receiving a letter of claim, mention the Claimant's failure to send one in your defence. I honestly cant remember recieving one, and i imagine they would come recorded in slme way? Also my details are definitely correct, and this is confirmed as i never passed them my home address yet have received this claim form |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 18:48
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 04:13
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I imagine they would come recorded in some way? Why would you imagine that? Or more pertinently why would they do that? Have you learnt nothing yet of PPC modus operandi? I'm not aware of any that use recorded, not least that recorded doesn't exist anymore, but none use the only tracked form for mail (signed for) either. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:03
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Acknowledge the claim online. Do NOT delay
Pictures of the signs will be needed If we could see the photos, it would be helpful to understand the context. FI there are no marked bays and no markings to indicate no-parking areas, they will DEFINITELY struggle to show "obstructive parking" and why that prohiotibion on patrking gives raise to a contract... |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 20:55
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 22 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,015 |
Acknowledge the claim online. Do NOT delay Pictures of the signs will be needed If we could see the photos, it would be helpful to understand the context. FI there are no marked bays and no markings to indicate no-parking areas, they will DEFINITELY struggle to show "obstructive parking" and why that prohiotibion on patrking gives raise to a contract... thats an attached image of the parking, i took those without moving the car. as you can see there are no signs, there is no obstruction, and there are no marked bays. when looking to acknowledge the claim online it appears i have to list my entire defence there and then, is this correct? or do i give a brief summary and then build up my full defense for the court? sorry i've never actually been involved with the courts and just want to make sure from this point i do everything correctly. I imagine they would come recorded in some way? Why would you imagine that? Or more pertinently why would they do that? Have you learnt nothing yet of PPC modus operandi? I'm not aware of any that use recorded, not least that recorded doesn't exist anymore, but none use the only tracked form for mail (signed for) either. Honestly i've never been involved in a court case, never been involved in a parking charge dispute, its all new to me. Apologies if it was a daft assumption, just seemed logical? |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 21:30
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
You acknowledge the claim on line but put nothing in the defence. The acknowledgement gives you 33 days from the date of issue to get your defence to the court.
In that defence you must put in all the items you wish to use in court, even if not in detail. You cannot add to your defence. |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 08:46
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Indeed, you get ONE shot at the defence
Stop guessing MSE Forrum -> Newbies thread -> Post 2 Read it Twice Tells you the entire process, start to finish. Gives you an example defence written by Bargepole, who is a very highly respected member. What about opposite the car, the other side of the car? |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 08:52
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
IMHO this is perfectly winnable at court. If there are no signs then driver's can't be expected to guess the terms!
There does not appear to be any 'obstruction' but the game is to issue as many tickets as possible. Many will pay and sadly they will likely take this all the way to a hearing as part of brinkmanship. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:07
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
JLC - the issue is weve only seen one angle. There could be a dozen signs just over the OPs shoulder.
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Well indeed, but only on what we've been presented thus far...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:54
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Yep, but hence Im wanting the OP to realise you cant just show half a picture...
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:08
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#16
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 22 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,015 |
Indeed, you get ONE shot at the defence Stop guessing MSE Forrum -> Newbies thread -> Post 2 Read it Twice Tells you the entire process, start to finish. Gives you an example defence written by Bargepole, who is a very highly respected member. What about opposite the car, the other side of the car? Thankyou, i do plan on reading all of this, apologies if my initial post was perhaps more hasty than it should have been, the day i received the letter i was in hospital with my wife who is unwell and i am just finding myself back in a normal routine. i will read all the recommended threads thouroughly however. With regards to photos, foolishly i only took those photos, however i have been on google maps today to get a photo of the car park. i also, again foolishly, didn't think to photograph the car park terms and conditions sign, however i plan on emailing a lecturer of mine to see if they would be able to. They do however have their terms and conditions online, and they are as follows; Parking Charge Notices would be issued to any vehicle that contravenes any of the advertised conditions laid down by the University. Signage is displayed within car parks showing the parking conditions that apply at all times. These are as follows: Not Displaying a valid Staffordshire University Parking Permit (except at times when this is suspended*), or Parked in a Disabled Driver Bay without displaying a valid Blue Badge or University Disabled Bay/Temporary Accessible Permit, or Parked in a restricted use parking area or obstructing any emergency exit or route, or Not parked wholly within a marked bay, or Parked on any yellow line or cross-hatched area, or Parked so as to cause an obstruction or inconvenience to others or otherwise block any other vehicle's path. It also discusses the appeals procedure which is interesting; Once a PCN has been issued you have 14 days to appeal in writing direct to: District Enforcement Limited PO Box 3487 Stafford ST16 9PR Alternatively, you can email appeals@district-enforcement.co.uk. Your appeal will be reviewed and either accepted or rejected. If your appeal is accepted the PCN will be cancelled. If your appeal is rejected, you will then have the right to appeal to an Independent Appeals Service. This service is free to the motorist (you) and binding upon the Operator (District Enforcement). If your case is rejected at this stage, you will still be liable for the outstanding charges. If your PCN is still not settled at this point, your case will be sent to debt recovery through solicitors and then onto court. the reason i say its interesting is because i emailed the appeals team the following week, and other than them asking for my address, which they said they would collect from the DVLA, i never received an acceptance or denial of my appeal, infact i received nothing else before my court claim letter. |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:15
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Contracts (for parking) are not formed by the terms on the website.
You should make a play of their lack of appeal opportunity - I presume the v5 was correct at the time? -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:19
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#18
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 22 Sep 2018 Member No.: 100,015 |
Yes the v5 was correct, same then as it is now
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Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 15:25
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Yes the v5 was correct, same then as it is now Ok, but they would have rejected any appeal you would have made (and still be here) - but nevertheless it's worth making an issue out of it... (Going straight to a court claim could be unreasonable...) -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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