NTK arrives after 88 day |
NTK arrives after 88 day |
Fri, 5 Nov 2021 - 19:14
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 24 Oct 2021 Member No.: 114,499 |
Hi. Keeper received a parking charge notice from NCP stating that their car was parked in a manner that breached NCP car park terms and conditions, recorded by ANPR. Date of incident stated at 5th August 2021 and date of sending Notice is 1st November 2021, 88 days later. Can this be successfully appealed on the grounds that the NTK was issued after the 14 day limit and is therefore null and void ?
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Fri, 5 Nov 2021 - 19:14
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Fri, 5 Nov 2021 - 19:21
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,363 Joined: 9 Apr 2021 Member No.: 112,205 |
It isn't "Null and void" - it's an invoice for a charge they allege was incurred. What matters is who can be held liable and if the charge is due.
However, if it is delivered late they cannot hold the keeper liable, only the driver, who they do not know. In some cases parking companies will pursue the keeper on the 'reasonable assumption' they were the driver. Can you show us the Notice you received? That is incredibly late, it may well be a reminder (the original may not have turned up!). -------------------- Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice | International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice |
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Fri, 5 Nov 2021 - 19:51
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,053 Joined: 20 May 2013 Member No.: 62,052 |
Also was this a hire or lease car or or similar? - where the day-to-day keeper is different than the registered keeper, which is usually the leasing company.
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 12:56
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 24 Oct 2021 Member No.: 114,499 |
Thanks for feedback. NTK is below
[attachment=78210:pcn_ncp_redacted.png] Circumstance is that the Driver visited the hotel located at Cambridge North Station car park, did not have cash for parking, not a smartphone to use the parking App. Spoke to the hotel receptionist who offered a parking area within which to park. The hotel will back this up. The NTK is the original Notice, dated 88 days after the alleged contravention date. It makes no reference to any previous Notice and includes a reduction if the PCN is paid within 14 days. As you can see, the ANPR evidence shows the car driving past the camera on entry, then another photo showing the car driving past a camera some time later. |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:26
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,363 Joined: 9 Apr 2021 Member No.: 112,205 |
Also was this a hire or lease car or or similar? ^^^ Can you answer the above? Do you have the vehicle's V5C document and is the address up to date? -------------------- Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice | International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:38
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Wher,e, precisely, was the vehicle parked. Your description doesn't help, as it doesn't say if the car park is within the area or outside of it.
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 13:56
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
If you are the keeper then the following seems to apply:
Dear Sirs, I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper. There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours etc -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 14:28
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,563 |
No, you cannot use this POPLA 14 day argument because NCP are not using Byelaws to manage the car park at Cambridge train station. NCP are using contract law to manage the car park - because they have issued you with a "Parking Charge Notice" rather than a "Penalty Charge Notice".
The POPLA guidance applies only to Byelaws ANPR tickets = "Penalty Charge Notices". @JLC, there is no possibility of keeper liability because train station car parks are not relevant land - Byelaws are still defined on this land even if NCP chooses not to use them for car park management. So Schedule 4 of POFA2012 does not apply. This post has been edited by Gary Bloke: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 14:32 |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 14:42
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Indeed, they could not use PoFA - but the principle remains. They have written to the keeper but can only pursue the driver (under alleged contract).
They would need to convince POPLA that, on the balance of probabilities, the keeper was driving - how would they do that? This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 14:45 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:27
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 24 Oct 2021 Member No.: 114,499 |
Thanks for all the feedback. My understanding is that if byelaws apply then there is no transfer of liability from Driver to Keeper. Even if byelaws do not apply the NTK fails POFA as it was sent later beyond the time limits ?
I need to check whether byelaws apply at Cambridge North Station, as this a relatively new car park. |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:51
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The chances of them issuing the first NTK this late are slim heavily trending towards zero.
Have you physically checked the V5c registration document to make sure all the details are correct? Not that it matters in this instance as there is no keeper liability anyway, but best to check. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 8 Nov 2021 - 15:59
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 24 Oct 2021 Member No.: 114,499 |
Thanks Rookie - the V5C registration document is correct, no problems there. There is no evidence of a prior Notice and the fact that this Notice states the discount if paid within 15 days tends to corroborate the fact it is the first Notice. I've seen a few NTKs over time and not seen a second or third NTK that repeats the discount offer.
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Tue, 7 Dec 2021 - 16:20
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 117 Joined: 24 Oct 2021 Member No.: 114,499 |
Result ! The Keeper appealed the PCN to NCP pointing out the length of time between the alleged parking contravention and the issuing of the NTK. NCP responded after 2 weeks accepting the appeal and cancelled the PCN. Thanks to all who provided feedback.
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Tue, 7 Dec 2021 - 17:28
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,363 Joined: 9 Apr 2021 Member No.: 112,205 |
Unusual for them to be so late sending out an NTK but clearly this is to your favour! Good result
-------------------- Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice | International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice |
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