Motorcycle NIP in NYP B6451 Possible Incorrect Vehicle Identified |
Motorcycle NIP in NYP B6451 Possible Incorrect Vehicle Identified |
Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 13:37
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
I have been issued with a NIP as attached ending in 520
It states I was doing 69mph in a 60mph zone at 19:25 on 12.9.18 on my motorcycle. I received the NIP in the post 3 days later on 15.9.18. The NIP was issued by North Yorkshire Police and has the correct Registration but they have not provided any evidence photos (which is common practice) The Location of the offence is detailed as B6451 Long Stoop Farm, South of A59 Junction. I know this route extremely well as I have travelled this route over the past few years hundreds of times. Google 'long stoop harrogate HG3 1SN' to find the location of the farm close to the B6451 On the date of the alleged offence I was following another random motorcycle at the speed limit along some twisty roads past The Sun Inn (Near Harrogate) and heading north along the B6451. As you are travelling along the B6451 North Bound you approach a section of road approximately 0.8 km long that is very straight but has a slight hidden dip and a lay-by where a speed camera van parks (hides) facing the traffic approaching the A59 Junction. I am very aware of this speed camera van location as about 6 months ago I received a speeding ticket from the van parked in this location. As I approached the 0.8km section of road where my bike is visible to the speed camera van I slowed down to perhaps 50mph just to be super safe. At that point I noticed that the random motorcycle in front of me did not slow down and in-fact accelerated as we started the straight where the speed camera van was located. I felt sorry for the guy as he had not noticed the speed camera van in the distance and he accelerated to perhaps 70 to 80 mph as he approached the camera van. It seems he panic braked about 300m before the camera van which was probably too late an he would more than likely receive a ticket. I am without doubt that I did not travel at more than 50mph for the full section of of the road and clearly nowhere near 69mph (that's quite a big difference) So....... Fast forward 3 days later and I was shocked to receive a NIP from that camera van at that very location! After spending many hours scratching my head I can only assume that the camera van must have taken a speed reading and associated front on photo from the motorcycle in front of me and then as we passed the camera van must have taken a photo of the rear of my motorcycle in error. Both bikes as far as I can tell were a similar type and similar colour-ish. It should be noted that several lorries passed across the line of sight of the speed camera operator as both bikes approached the camera van. Hopefully the front facing photograph the police hold with the speed reading is not of my vehicle but as they make it difficult to view the photos before going to court I am unsure what to do. I have 28 Days to respond to the NIP so any advice in the meantime would be greatly appreciated. See Attached NIP and image of the location of the alleged offence from google maps Location of alleged offence B6451 Harrogate HG3 1SD 53.996217, -1.691582 |
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Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 13:37
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:50
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
So today i received a letter from the police cancelling the NIP (see attached)
As this has now happened multiple times i am still unsure how to approach making a complaint. I could make a complaint direct to the department that issued the NIP or the officer i have been emailing at the Traffic Bureau but i feel if i do it this way it will just get swept under the rug and they will just continue with the same process making the same mistakes again and again. |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 11:54
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
they will just continue with the same process making the same mistakes again and again. Probably. I have to say i don't understand why you've been so unlucky. In all the years i've been on this forum i think we've seen a case of mistaken identity on a handful of occassions. And never same person twice. -------------------- |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 12:33
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
they will just continue with the same process making the same mistakes again and again. Probably. I have to say i don't understand why you've been so unlucky. In all the years i've been on this forum i think we've seen a case of mistaken identity on a handful of occassions. And never same person twice. I have had mistaken identity (wrong vehicle 4 times now) NYP x1 and Highways Endland x3 The smart motorway response i received all stated the following:- Dear Mr XXX Sorry for the delay in responding to your enquiry. We have been investigating the reasons why we issued advisory letters to you and are currently collating responses to your questions. With respect to the advisory letters you received, we can confirm that the letter we sent you with respect to an alleged contravention of a red ‘X’ lane closure sign on 31 October 2017 at 08:00 was sent in error (HE0792/17/0086, dated 7 November 2017). For this, we apologise. Regrettably, the systems we employ to identify offending vehicles and issue advisory letters occasionally identify vehicle registrations incorrectly. Following investigation, we confirm that your vehicle was mis-identified on 31 October 2017. We are considering measures that will reduce this type of error in future and will be updating our records accordingly. I have a 5th offence where i am currently disputing the location of the offence and speed indicated with NYP I think its a mixture of being very unlucky and also the fact that I must pass 100 various different cameras/ANPR on the way to work every day and each one of them could possibly issue me a ticket for something in error. 20 years ago perhaps 1% of our driving was monitored and now due to the number of Speed Cameras and ANPR i would estimate my current route to work must monitor 20 to 30 % of my driving. |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:00
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
OP, it seems that your number plate has been mis-read on multiple occasions.
Are you sure it meets the requirements regarding size, font and spacing? |
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Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 13:03
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
OP, it seems that your number plate has been mis-read on multiple occasions. Are you sure it meets the requirements regarding size, font and spacing? Yes but good point. 3 occasions it was my car and the other 2 occasions it was my motorcycle. The registration are UK standard and MOT passable etc.. |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 10:08
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Sounds like you've got a good tabloid story in any case! Do they pay for such stories?
--Churchmouse |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:55
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,214 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
OP, it seems that your number plate has been mis-read on multiple occasions. Are you sure it meets the requirements regarding size, font and spacing? Isn't it more likely that someone else's was misread If the OP's number plate was misread then he wouldnt' be getting the NIP, would he? |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 12:59
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
Sounds like you've got a good tabloid story in any case! Do they pay for such stories? --Churchmouse I have made an official complaint as follows to North Yorkshire Police via the online form in the link below:- https://northyorkshire.police.uk/contact/complain-to-us/ The complaint reads as follows:- I received a NIP dated 14.09.2018 Your Ref : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX520 that was issued in error and I have now received a brief letter stating confirming that the NIP has been cancelled and no further action is required from me. I spent several hours of my time seeking legal advice trying to figuring out how such a serious mistake could be made by the Police. I am disappointed by the impression I was given regarding the lack of concern that speeding tickets can be issued to motorcyclists in error. Its quite possible hundreds of motorcyclists may have received speeding tickets in error due to a flaw in the system currently used by NYP when enforcing speeding fines. In your very brief apology letter that I received it did not clarify how the mistake was made or that there were going to be any changes to your current system to prevent this serious mistake happening again. The consequences of receiving incorrectly issued speeding fines can result in huge financial loss to the victim. The consequence of incorrectly issued points would increase victim’s insurance premiums by thousands of pounds a year and in some circumstances result in a driving ban and potentially loss of employment. Another factor to consider is that receiving any form of punishment from the police for an offence that has not been committed is extremely stressful and time consuming. I feel that I have had to make this complaint to makes sure changes can be implemented. I would like confirmation of how the speeding ticket was issued to myself in error on this specific occasion and what plans the police have to change the current flawed system. I would also like confirmation on how all the speeding fines issued to motorcyclists in the NYP area during current flawed system will be reviewed. I would assume that NYP will be required to review all evidence from similar motorcycle speeding offences and advise other motorcyclists that have potentially received points on their driving licence or a ban incorrectly. Hopefully you understand the importance of this complaint for the Police and Driving Licence Holders and respond accordingly. Kind Regards |
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Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 14:31
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
OP, it seems that your number plate has been mis-read on multiple occasions. Are you sure it meets the requirements regarding size, font and spacing? Isn't it more likely that someone else's was misread If the OP's number plate was misread then he wouldnt' be getting the NIP, would he? Yes, your logic is impeccable! |
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Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 09:14
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The complaint reads as follows:- I received a NIP dated 14.09.2018 Your Ref : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX520 that was issued in error and I have now received a brief letter stating confirming that the NIP has been cancelled and no further action is required from me. I spent several hours of my time seeking legal advice trying to figuring out how such a serious mistake could be made by the Police. I am disappointed by the impression I was given regarding the lack of concern that speeding tickets can be issued to motorcyclists in error. Its quite possible hundreds of motorcyclists may have received speeding tickets in error due to a flaw in the system currently used by NYP when enforcing speeding fines. In your very brief apology letter that I received it did not clarify how the mistake was made or that there were going to be any changes to your current system to prevent this serious mistake happening again. The consequences of receiving incorrectly issued speeding fines can result in huge financial loss to the victim. The consequence of incorrectly issued points would increase victim’s insurance premiums by thousands of pounds a year and in some circumstances result in a driving ban and potentially loss of employment. Another factor to consider is that receiving any form of punishment from the police for an offence that has not been committed is extremely stressful and time consuming. I feel that I have had to make this complaint to makes sure changes can be implemented. I would like confirmation of how the speeding ticket was issued to myself in error on this specific occasion and what plans the police have to change the current flawed system. I would also like confirmation on how all the speeding fines issued to motorcyclists in the NYP area during current flawed system will be reviewed. I would assume that NYP will be required to review all evidence from similar motorcycle speeding offences and advise other motorcyclists that have potentially received points on their driving licence or a ban incorrectly. Hopefully you understand the importance of this complaint for the Police and Driving Licence Holders and respond accordingly. Kind Regards Number plates get misread form time to time. Anyone reading this complaint will assume it was a one-off mistake and you'll receive an apologetic but formulaic response saying we're very sorry bla bla bla, but nothing will likely happen. Also, it's NIP not NYP. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 09:58
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
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Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 11:51
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
The complaint reads as follows:- I received a NIP dated 14.09.2018 Your Ref : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX520 that was issued in error and I have now received a brief letter stating confirming that the NIP has been cancelled and no further action is required from me. I spent several hours of my time seeking legal advice trying to figuring out how such a serious mistake could be made by the Police. I am disappointed by the impression I was given regarding the lack of concern that speeding tickets can be issued to motorcyclists in error. Its quite possible hundreds of motorcyclists may have received speeding tickets in error due to a flaw in the system currently used by NYP when enforcing speeding fines. In your very brief apology letter that I received it did not clarify how the mistake was made or that there were going to be any changes to your current system to prevent this serious mistake happening again. The consequences of receiving incorrectly issued speeding fines can result in huge financial loss to the victim. The consequence of incorrectly issued points would increase victim’s insurance premiums by thousands of pounds a year and in some circumstances result in a driving ban and potentially loss of employment. Another factor to consider is that receiving any form of punishment from the police for an offence that has not been committed is extremely stressful and time consuming. I feel that I have had to make this complaint to makes sure changes can be implemented. I would like confirmation of how the speeding ticket was issued to myself in error on this specific occasion and what plans the police have to change the current flawed system. I would also like confirmation on how all the speeding fines issued to motorcyclists in the NYP area during current flawed system will be reviewed. I would assume that NYP will be required to review all evidence from similar motorcycle speeding offences and advise other motorcyclists that have potentially received points on their driving licence or a ban incorrectly. Hopefully you understand the importance of this complaint for the Police and Driving Licence Holders and respond accordingly. Kind Regards Number plates get misread form time to time. Anyone reading this complaint will assume it was a one-off mistake and you'll receive an apologetic but formulaic response saying we're very sorry bla bla bla, but nothing will likely happen. Also, it's NIP not NYP. The number plate was not misread. It was the wrong vehicle that was identified. Also NYP is short for North Yorkshire Police. |
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Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 00:35
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The number plate was not misread. It was the wrong vehicle that was identified. Also NYP is short for North Yorkshire Police. I still think to little emphasis was put on the fact that this issue has occurred repeatedly. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:15
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
I received the following from North Yorkshire Police after making an official complaint. Dear Mr. Xxxxxx Further to your correspondence recently received regarding an incorrectly issued Notice of Intended Prosecution for your motorbike, I have tried to call you to discuss this personally but only got through to your voicemail. Firstly, please accept my apologies that you received a NIP that was issued in error – which is a matter we take very seriously. I have reviewed the alleged offence in detail and can confirm that in this instance there was an administration error, which resulted in you receiving incorrect correspondence. Your complaint makes reference specifically to motorcyclists, rather than drivers as a whole and I can confirm that all offences are treated equally showing no bias towards a specific type of motor vehicle. It is an unfortunate human error (not a departmental system error) that has resulted in you, as the registered keeper of a motorcycle, receiving this correspondence. I am sure you can appreciate that we process a large volume of offences every day, and issues like this are rare. However, I will personally provide feedback to the member of staff who processed xxxxxxxxxxx520 to reiterate the importance of data accuracy and quality as well as explaining what has occurred as the result of their error. I can only apologise that the letter you received did not appear to cover what led to you receiving incorrect correspondence, and I hope this email resolves this for you. If you have further questions, then please do not hesitate to contact me directly and I will be happy to address them. Please accept my apologies once again, for the time taken seeking legal advice and subsequent stress you have received as a result of this error. Traffic Bureau Team Leader Traffic Bureau North Yorkshire Police |
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 13:12
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
So previously I received multiple speeding tickets issued in Error by North Yorkshire Police due to what they stated was due to Administrative errors but in fact it was a flaw in the way they collect information and issue speeding tickets to motorcyclists. The link below is the original post. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122834 As North Yorkshire Police are able to issue speeding tickets without providing any form of evidence to the alleged offender the majority of alleged offenders don't dispute the offence. The only way to view the evidence is at a court hearing and this makes it very difficult to decide if you should go to court without having images or footage that the police hold. I am now at a stage where I have received an apology, a refund for my speed awareness course and a letter confirming i have my speed awareness life back. Unfortunately I have spent a day off work attending a speed awareness and at least a full day of my time writing letters/emails and making phone calls to resolve the major issues North Yorkshire Police have. Obviously I need to make a claim to cover my losses as i don't have a money tree to cover the financial loss. Attached is an image of a response from the police following my official request for compensation. It seems to stated they have 3 months to investigate which is frustrating as I have provided them with there letter they sent me confirming they are at fault. The letter they sent me also states they typically adopt the principles of the personal injury protocol which is unusual as i have not received any form of personal injury, just a financial loss due to their incompetence. Has anyone on here ever made a claim against the police due to incorrectly issued motoring offences? If so was it successful? |
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 13:25
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I would take their letter as broadly positive, they're basically asking you for evidence of how much you earn, they wouldn't be asking for this if they were minded to fob you off. They give themselves 3 months in all likelihood to ensure that when there's a backlog people have a realistic timeframe for a response.
I would recommend you simply send them the evidence they've asked for and I suspect you'll get an answer within a month or so. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 15:19
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#57
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Member Group: Members Posts: 46 Joined: 8 Sep 2015 Member No.: 79,277 |
I would take their letter as broadly positive, they're basically asking you for evidence of how much you earn, they wouldn't be asking for this if they were minded to fob you off. They give themselves 3 months in all likelihood to ensure that when there's a backlog people have a realistic timeframe for a response. I would recommend you simply send them the evidence they've asked for and I suspect you'll get an answer within a month or so. Hi, Yes it does seem like good news if they are asking for a wage slip. They have responded now and as I booked a days holiday to attend the speed awareness course they are suggesting that I was not financially effected as I received a full wage for the month I attended the speed awareness course. We all know that's bollocks and I have now had to explain that should i not have attended the speed awareness course i could have earned a days wage. My request for compensation is for my loss off time calculated using my daily rate. Hopefully they can understand this. Cheers |
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 15:52
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I would take their letter as broadly positive, they're basically asking you for evidence of how much you earn, they wouldn't be asking for this if they were minded to fob you off. They give themselves 3 months in all likelihood to ensure that when there's a backlog people have a realistic timeframe for a response. I would recommend you simply send them the evidence they've asked for and I suspect you'll get an answer within a month or so. Hi, Yes it does seem like good news if they are asking for a wage slip. They have responded now and as I booked a days holiday to attend the speed awareness course they are suggesting that I was not financially effected as I received a full wage for the month I attended the speed awareness course. We all know that's bollocks and I have now had to explain that should i not have attended the speed awareness course i could have earned a days wage. My request for compensation is for my loss off time calculated using my daily rate. Hopefully they can understand this. Cheers You lost a day of your holiday allowance attending the course. Your holiday allowance is part of your compensation package, and I think you are entitled to compensation for losing it owing to a failure of some sort by NY Police. I doubt you would have chosen to spend a day at the course otherwise! -------------------- |
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 15:53
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,214 Joined: 24 Mar 2013 From: Scotland Member No.: 60,732 |
They have responded now and as I booked a days holiday to attend the speed awareness course they are suggesting that I was not financially effected as I received a full wage for the month I attended the speed awareness course. We all know that's bollocks and I have now had to explain that should i not have attended the speed awareness course i could have earned a days wage. My request for compensation is for my loss off time calculated using my daily rate. Hopefully they can understand this. Surely the answer is that you lost a day's holiday, meaning that to receive your normal annual holiday you are now required to take one day unpaid. The loss is the same. |
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Thu, 30 May 2019 - 17:36
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#60
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
They have responded now and as I booked a days holiday to attend the speed awareness course they are suggesting that I was not financially effected as I received a full wage for the month I attended the speed awareness course. As others have said, paid holiday is part of your compensation package. I suppose you could suggest that the paralegal concerned can use a day of his own annual holiday to go and cover for you at your job while you're away, see what he thinks of that. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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