PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

469 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

Logician
Posted on: Today, 16:29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


The NIP was incorrect, but I do not see how the OP was disadvantaged by that. He of course received just a copy of the NIP, but a s.172 requirement to name the driver at 11.51 which he has now proved that he answered mistakenly, and according to your argument on another thread, thereby committed an offence under s.172. I would not expect the police to take any action over that. Had he been asked who was driving at 7.52 he would presumably have replied in exactly the same way, but in that case correctly. The end result of the error by the police over the time is that they have not got any statement by the driver that he was driving at the time the offence was committed, so they are disadvantaged not the OP.

You may be right that the police will NFA the matter when the error is pointed out, but they could decide to prosecute the OP with some chance of success I would say, or they could now serve him with a s.172 requirement for the correct time.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1486853 · Replies: 7 · Views: 225

Logician
Posted on: Today, 11:37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 21 May 2019 - 10:32) *
Except for the fact that the defendant was mislead by a deficient NIP?


So any prosecution cannot rely on his reply that he was driving at 11.51 and proceeds on the basis that he was driving at 7.52. If he pleads not guilty is he going to claim he was not driving at that time? If he does, how is he going to explain that someone else was driving at that time?

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1486750 · Replies: 7 · Views: 225

Logician
Posted on: Today, 10:30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


So the police have a photograph showing your vehicle committing the offence, and you do not dispute that you were driving the vehicle when the photograph was taken. Your only dispute is at what time this occurred, you say it was almost exactly 4 hours earlier than the police say. I do not see that as likely to form the basis for a successful defence, because the time is simply not critical. The prosecution might concede that the time setting was incorrect, but contend that does not have any bearing on the recording of the offence, and unless you could show that it does, the court is likely to accept that.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1486722 · Replies: 7 · Views: 225

Logician
Posted on: Yesterday, 13:17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Well done, be sure to go very carefully now because any more points will see you back in the same situation until the oldest points start to expire for totting purposes. and you cannot use the same exceptional hardship argument again within the next three years.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1486541 · Replies: 14 · Views: 2,025

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 18 May 2019 - 20:56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


It takes something like 5 days for the MID to be updated. If the car is already taxed, it stays taxed until DVLA are notified, despite what they tell you. If it is not taxed and you do it immediately it will not appear on the police website until the following day, so neither is instantaneous.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1486181 · Replies: 11 · Views: 529

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 18 May 2019 - 12:41


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE
There are two people at this adress with this surname.
I know its a technicality but it could be meant for either of us, or neither of us.


But only one of those two people has that company car allocated to them, so you know that actually it is meant for you.
The mistake over your name could be down to the police, or could be an error by your company or leasing company in supplying the details. There is a downside to trying to take advantage of this, in that the police might go back to your company to complain that they have supplied the wrong name and, although unlikely, might even try to prosecute them for that. That might not be career enhancing for you.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1486060 · Replies: 15 · Views: 565

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 17 May 2019 - 11:48


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Why are you not sure? You need to make every effort to work it out, look make on your mobile, look on credit card and bank statements, compare your diary with others who might have been driving etc. The penalties for failing to name the driver are almost always more severe than for speeding, if that is the allegation, and insurance companies load heavily for it. Reasonable diligence is in practice a very high standard to meet.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485861 · Replies: 2 · Views: 290

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 17 May 2019 - 11:43


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


I am not convinced a statement naming the wrong driver would breach s.172, unless it was made knowingly and wilfully, which is the standard for perjury.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485859 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,607

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 16 May 2019 - 23:22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Well, that is what he portrayed himself as. Anyway, the point stands, do not try to dispute the speed measurement on technical grounds, you are very unlikely to win and it can be very expensive.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485758 · Replies: 30 · Views: 992

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 16 May 2019 - 19:40


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (john1234567 @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 12:38) *
Slithy, I was actually at the acceptance stage 1/2 a mile down the road. I find the process of appealing these arbitrary penalties entertaining. If you look through my posting history on here you'll see I'm mostly successful. I have a clean license, I could just take it. Jlc, I did spot the officer despite only a slither of her yellow jacket around her arm being visible. So rapidly slowed down, I'm not certain of our speed or the vehicles we were passing. If the reflections to the laser were bouncing off a slower and faster car at the same time that could give the appearance of a much faster speed than would otherwise be recorded under normal circumstances.


Your previous posts concerned parking and bus lane penalties which are a very different matter from speeding, and more difficult to overturn on technicalities of the paperwork.

When disputing the measurement it is no good just raising the possibility that something has gone wrong, you need to be able to show that it has. Search for the case of Dr Science on here. He was an expert physicist but failed to avoid his wife being convicted.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485720 · Replies: 30 · Views: 992

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 16 May 2019 - 19:27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


People are persisting with this because we often find posters believing their employer is the registered keeper, but on checking find it is a leasing company. Go down the route of trying to invoke the 14 day rule when it does not apply risks losing the chance of a course or fixed penalty. You do need to see the V5C to check it out, even if the company is the RK, there may be other reasons for the delay, such as a recent purchase of the vehicle.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485717 · Replies: 7 · Views: 347

Logician
Posted on: Thu, 16 May 2019 - 11:52


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 07:56) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 16 May 2019 - 06:22) *
Naming the wrong driver is clearly an S172 offence?
I suppose technically it is as the recipient failed to provide the driver's details. But I imagine (depending on the circumstances) a more likely charge to follow would be Attempting to Pervert the Course of Justice.


How can it be that if you name the driver you believe is most likely to have been driving? You are attempting to further the course of justice, although unsuccessfully.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485567 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,607

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 15 May 2019 - 20:42


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


See the advice in post #7. Wait as long as you can for a photo, but do not risk exceeding the 28 days you have to reply. If no photo comes, name the most likely driver, but you must name a single driver unequivocally, otherwise a s.172 conviction is very likely, which is much worse than a simple speeding conviction.

You commit an offence if you deliberately name the wrong driver, but no offence naming the most likely driver even if that later proves to be wrong, but there is little chance of it being proved wrong, because if you cannot be certain of the driver, how can anyone else be?

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485420 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,607

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 15 May 2019 - 19:55


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE
I unfortunately got a one the week prior however I’m not sure if it was me or my husband driving so I am investigating and have asked for evidence but as of now I have no endorsements.


They do not have to provide any evidence but may do so. In most cases the photograph will not assist much in identifying the driver, and you will have to do what you can with your husband to reconstruct what you were both doing that day. Calls on your mobile may help, and look at your credit card statement and so on. You do not have to be 100% certain, you may just have to name the most likely driver. What you have to do is to name a single driver, and do it unequivocally. Some people are too honest for their own good and say they cannot be sure but will take responsibility or give more than one name. Do not do that, a single name and no equivocation is what the system needs and anything else will cause problems.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485398 · Replies: 3 · Views: 238

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 15 May 2019 - 14:53


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Assuming the children are yours and your spouse's, your spouse could simply plead guilty and put forward mitigation. The fact that he did not accompany you may rather weaken your case, in that you could have left the children with him and travelled on your own.

Good luck with the case, I am afraid you are going to need it.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485328 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,934

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 15 May 2019 - 14:43


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (john1234567 @ Wed, 15 May 2019 - 13:47) *
Ah, no... the officer did say she was issuing the ticket on the grounds of safety for the greater good... and all of that. I'm not expecting to use any of that in any official sense, just justifying to myself that by looking for ways around it I am not trying to get away with driving unsafely. Another question I wondered about was where they will conduct proceedings if I elected to take it to court. The offence occurred a long way from home. Would they want me to travel to a court at the other end of the country or my nearest one? Surely some issue of fairness comes in to play there. If justice cannot be accessed due to the logistics of attending a court at the other end of the country then that's justice denied?


That was a rather absurd thing for the officer to say, the offence is exceeding the limit, whether or not it was safe to do so is quite irrelevant.

If you reject the fixed penalty, and opt for a full court hearing, the case will be heard at a court dealing with traffic matters for the area concerned. In exceptional circumstances cases may be transferred to another area, but not just for the convenience of the alleged offender, and a local hearing is usually better for any witnesses.

The advice to always opt for a trial is quite fantastically bad unless you actually have some viable defence. Things sometimes do go wrong with a prosecution but going to court hoping for that is rather like running up large debts in the hope that a lottery win will take care of repaying them. The penalties imposed by a court will always be higher than a fixed penalty and sometimes much higher. In your case, if you are found guilty after pleading not guilty, the fine would be 50% of your net weekly income, plus a surcharge of 10% (minimum £30), plus costs with a guideline of £620, but the points would still be the same at 3.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485323 · Replies: 30 · Views: 992

Logician
Posted on: Wed, 15 May 2019 - 11:29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


No. There is no requirement to give you any paper at all. All that is required is that she warned you that you might be prosecuted, or a NIP is later sent out. You may receive a NIP in the post, just to make sure, some forces do, some do not.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485254 · Replies: 30 · Views: 992

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 17:14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


That is correct, legally the opinion of one officer is sufficient, but a police officer who used to post here said he had never known the police rely on that, and would always use some form of measurement. The police of course are allowed to speed for operational purposes.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485086 · Replies: 12 · Views: 1,075

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 14:26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


From your most recent accounts, unless for some reason they are not representative of your current income.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485037 · Replies: 9 · Views: 543

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 14:23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


Have you tried other forums such as Mumsnet and Money Saving Expert? This is not our area at all, and even those with experience of magistrates courts will not necessarily have come across school attendance cases. Also perhaps Citizens Advice.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485033 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,934

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 13:36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


You cannot attend the single justice hearing and there is no point doing anything other than simply pleading guilty. You will get 3 points, a fine of 50% of your weekly net income, less 33% for the guilty plea. surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £30) and £85 costs. You will of course need to inform your insurance company, either immediately or on renewal, depending on your policy.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1485021 · Replies: 9 · Views: 543

Logician
Posted on: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 10:21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


I have never been involved in one of these cases, but I would think that the court would not want to go behind the headmaster's decision unless it was wholly unreasonable. Nothing you have said sounds to me as though it was wholly unreasonable, your visit was simply to see your parents to keep in touch, there was no emergency element about it, and with planning it could have been arranged to take place during a holiday period, even if that would be later than you would have preferred to go.

That is why I suggested you should concentrate on the errors that the Council have made Can you look again at what they have said and see if they have said "periods" rather than "days" as Steve_999 has suggested above? Are the letters that the Council say they sent correctly addressed to you?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1484984 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,934

Logician
Posted on: Mon, 13 May 2019 - 21:13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE
1. if i request for school headteacher as witness will it be a good request - as case rests on him. he did not authorise my exceptional leave request. i have been told i may be asked to pay for his time.


There is no point asking him to attend unless you disagree with something he says in his witness statement. If he says he did not authorise your request and you agree he did not authorise it, why do you want him to attend?

QUOTE
2. can i represent myself or a solicitor is a must in criminal court? i do not have money to pay to solicitor.


You can represent yourself, many people do

QUOTE
6. i have gone through council prosecution - it has wrong facts, wrong dates and portraying me as a regular casual offender using wrong data and wrong interpretation of my exceptional leave request

7. council is showing around 10+ letters that they sent me penalty notice and warnings and reminders about court case. i never got anything until last thursday this court summons for june so v little time is left for me to react and prepare defence and take advice and do research.

8. how can all get lost in post over 6 months period so i suspect they secretly filed court action and created letters but never posted them.


Do NOT suggest the school or the Council is being dishonest or malicious unless you can actually prove that. Instead point out all their mistakes and errors and that you never received all the letters they claim to have written, and portray them as confused and incompetent.

You if possible to be disputing the facts the council are putting forward, not arguing that the headmaster made a wrong decision in not allowing exceptional leave. Do not make it about you and you wanting to see your parents, make it about the children and their bond with their grandparents.


  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1484888 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,934

Logician
Posted on: Sat, 11 May 2019 - 23:04


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 11 May 2019 - 19:16) *
The code on your licence is a red herring, as you’ve not, so far as I know, been accused of an offence concerning your licence.


Actually he has, the COFP offered specifies an offence against s.87(1) RTA 1988, driving otherwise than in accordance with his licence.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1484436 · Replies: 50 · Views: 3,558

Logician
Posted on: Fri, 10 May 2019 - 23:20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,929
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528


A prosecution should only proceed if there is a realistic prospect of conviction, based on an objective assessment, not on upset feelings. The important thing in this case is to convince the decision maker that there is only a poor prospect of conviction, which in this case is best done by pointing out that the police officer concerned has misunderstood the meaning of the code on the driving licence. There will be no wish to see the prosecution humiliated in court by having their ignorance of the meaning of the code put on display, so they will check it out. "As you will know" lets them down a little gently. That is my thinking anyway.

  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1484192 · Replies: 50 · Views: 3,558

469 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

New Posts  New Replies
No New Posts  No New Replies
Hot topic  Hot Topic (New)
No new  Hot Topic (No New)
Poll  Poll (New)
No new votes  Poll (No New)
Closed  Locked Topic
Moved  Moved Topic
 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 21st May 2019 - 17:49
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.