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Totting up ban with Court date impending.
monkeybrains74
post Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 20:55
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Hi.

First of all, I am full aware it's my own doing and even though the last offence was a genuine error on my part, it is still my own fault

The last offence took place on the 12/10/17. The road is a duel lane i.e. 2 lanes going the same direction (and 2 the other) through a town and I assumed wrongly that it was a 40 limit when it was in-fact a 30.

A policeman with a radar caught me doing 35 and so received a FPN a few days later.

I send the form back and this morning received the below:

"A further endorsement of 3 penalty points makes you liable for disqualification through the 'totting up' process. This can no longer be dealt with at the fixed penalty stage and xxxxxx Police will contact you in due course"

I checked earlier on the DVLA site and this is showing the below:


SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 25 Feb 2017

SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 2 May 2016

SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 18 Oct 2014
Expired

This shows that at the time, I had 9 points but the 3 on the 18th October came off just 6 days after the date of offence.

I'm really asking if anyone has any advice regarding my court appearance. I wish to accept fault but would like to know what I can possibly do to reduce any ban. Should I get legal representation?

The DVLA site is now showing I only have 6 points, so I guess the 3 expired came off and any for this latest offence are yet to be added?
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post Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 20:55
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NewJudge
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:24
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:10) *
Can I ask what this means (full court hearing)?


A hearing before a normal Magistrates' Court, presided over by either three "lay" magistrates or a District Judge. That was how all motoring matters that went to court were dealt with before the introduction of the "Single Justice" procedure.
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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:34
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:24) *
QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:10) *
Can I ask what this means (full court hearing)?


A hearing before a normal Magistrates' Court, presided over by either three "lay" magistrates or a District Judge. That was how all motoring matters that went to court were dealt with before the introduction of the "Single Justice" procedure.


Thank you.

So the only difference is the "Single Justice" procedure has less people and there isn't any cause for concern?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:51
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As you can’t present your case before a single justice (he works with just a legal advisor in an office) asking for a hearing to present an EH case could only ever result in what you now have.


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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:59
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Okay, thank you.
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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:17
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Just an update as forgot about posting on here.

I actually got a 3 month ban instead of 6 due to my solicitor informing the judge of little known legislation with regards to the most recent offence being so near to the time the first points were to come off, along with defenses we gave including the Community Support officer who came to court and defended hadn't brought proof he'd measured between the lampposts.

Court was on the 16th of July and my ban comes to an end midnight on the 15th of next month.

Thanks for you advice but glad I did get a Solicitor as otherwise it would have been 6 months without question.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:40
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:17) *
I actually got a 3 month ban instead of 6 due to my solicitor informing the judge of little known legislation with regards to the most recent offence being so near to the time the first points were to come off


What legislation is that?

QUOTE
along with defenses we gave including the Community Support officer who came to court and defended hadn't brought proof he'd measured between the lampposts.

If it was a defence you wouldn’t have been convicted. It would (should) have no bearing on sentence.


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peterguk
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:41
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:17) *
little known legislation with regards to the most recent offence being so near to the time the first points


Please explain in more detail. Either points are counted for totting, or they are not.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:43


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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:46
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The below comes from the end of case letter I got from my Solicitor

"The 3 penalty points imposed for this offence meant you had accumulated a total of 12 points for offences committed within a 3 year period and therefore you were at serious risk of a minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification.

However, after considering the mitigation that I advanced on your behalf and looking very closely at the wording of section 35 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, the Judge VERY unusually agreed to not impose the minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification despite you not having exceptional hardship grounds. The Judge agreed to impose a 3 month totting up disqualification on the basis you had only been caught by the totting up provisions by 6 days."
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peterguk
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:54
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:46) *
The below comes from the end of case letter I got from my Solicitor

"The 3 penalty points imposed for this offence meant you had accumulated a total of 12 points for offences committed within a 3 year period and therefore you were at serious risk of a minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification.

However, after considering the mitigation that I advanced on your behalf and looking very closely at the wording of section 35 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, the Judge VERY unusually agreed to not impose the minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification despite you not having exceptional hardship grounds. The Judge agreed to impose a 3 month totting up disqualification on the basis you had only been caught by the totting up provisions by 6 days."


So which bit is the little known legislation? A totting ban doesn't have to be 6 months, and it appears the court used some discretion.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:58
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:46) *
The below comes from the end of case letter I got from my Solicitor

"The 3 penalty points imposed for this offence meant you had accumulated a total of 12 points for offences committed within a 3 year period and therefore you were at serious risk of a minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification.

However, after considering the mitigation that I advanced on your behalf and looking very closely at the wording of section 35 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, the Judge VERY unusually agreed to not impose the minimum 6 month Totting Up disqualification despite you not having exceptional hardship grounds. The Judge agreed to impose a 3 month totting up disqualification on the basis you had only been caught by the totting up provisions by 6 days."

That’s not little known at all, that’s the legislation exceptional hardship pleas are made under. It makes no mention of the closeness of the offence to points ceasing to count for totting purposes, though clearly this was a matter the court saw fit to take into account. “Exceptional hardship” is simply shorthand for “that there are grounds for mitigating the normal consequences of the conviction and thinks fit to order him to be disqualified for a shorter period or not to order him to be disqualified” so clearly the court found there were such grounds.


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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:08
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All I remember is the Solicitor pointing the Judge as some wording to which the Judge said "very interesting".

To which he then gave me 3 months.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:16
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That would be the wording I’ve just quoted.


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monkeybrains74
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:25
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Indeed.
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