Speeding on lane where speed fluctuates |
Speeding on lane where speed fluctuates |
Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 23:45
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Was apparently driving 39 in a 30, I remember seeing the van and thinking im ok as not that fast, plus the speed limit had been variable I beleive, am I bang to rights or can I appeal anything?
Thanks in advance This post has been edited by dan79: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 10:18 |
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Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 23:45
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Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 16:19
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Im still waiting on the Council but I did come across this... what do you think
http://fivehead-village.org.uk/a378-speed-...device-results/ |
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Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 16:54
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#42
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
what do you think In what context? It's a summary of actual speeds. I don't see an angle for a defence even if the majority of people ignore the limit. This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 16:55 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 21:42
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Im still waiting on the Council but I did come across this... what do you think http://fivehead-village.org.uk/a378-speed-...device-results/ If anything this makes things worse, the police can rightly say they were targeting enforcement at that road because there's a known speeding problem, and there is evidence to back up that assertion. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 21:59
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#44
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Think if it was a real police stop.
"Can I ask why you were speeding, sir?" "Everyone through here speeds so I did too." Wrong answer. |
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Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 22:00
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Rather than me try and put up the pdf , here is the email I got , and you can take a look yourselves if needsbe or dont mind. Hope this is easier way. Thanks
Good afternoon, Thank you for contacting Somerset County Council. Please visit www.somerset.gov.uk/roads-parking-and-transport/road-works/tro/ and search 'A378' in the search bar - the relevant TRO will then be available below the Keyword Search bar. Kind regards |
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:05
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
See, that is very interesting because as far as I can make out there is no Church Road in Fivehead.
http://www.somerset.gov.uk/EasysiteWeb/get...type=Attachment If that is the case then the speed limit effectively doesn't exist, it cannot start from nowhere. There have been cases on here where the case has been dropped due to the wrong road name being named in the TRO. However, I would wait for a second opinion. |
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:41
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:51
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
I have emailed them for my curiosity checking this is the most recent version, it is possible they have updated it in the interim and just not put the new version online.
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 14:21
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Church Road meets the A378 at Curry Rivel but that is a few km from Fivehead. Here However according to the council map the following (unnamed road on Google Maps) is also Church Road: Here If you want an authoritative map I would suggest Ordnance Survey rather than google maps: https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 14:40
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Indeed the council call in Church Road but it is not named that either on OS or on the ground, and none of the farms along that stretch list it as their address.
Plus there are no churches on that road. If I remember correctly there was a case, indeed a more subtle mistake in the road name on a council map, on here where the ticket was rescinded. Might be a fun story for the local rag though. |
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Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 16:45
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Received confirmation (commendably quickly) from South Somerset County Roads that the 2015 TRO is the current one and thelocation on the TRO doesn't exist. They are investigating.
In the meantime I've emailed the police asking them to suspend enforcement and put any active cases on hold. No doubt they will be too arrogant to do so but best to give them the chance before going to the press. This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 16:47 |
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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 16:17
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#52
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Received confirmation (commendably quickly) from South Somerset County Roads that the 2015 TRO is the current one and thelocation on the TRO doesn't exist. They are investigating. In the meantime I've emailed the police asking them to suspend enforcement and put any active cases on hold. No doubt they will be too arrogant to do so but best to give them the chance before going to the press. What is my next step then, I have to return the letter by tomorrow? |
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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 16:23
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You have to name the driver regardless. Doing so does not prejudice any case you may have.
Committing a separate s172 offence would be pursued and any defence to the underlying offence itself is no defence! -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 16:47
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#54
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The S172 is only saying that you were the driver at the time, not admitting any offence. Hopefully if the police are reasonable they will suspend your case and everyone else caught at this location. They should not be enforcing a TRO that the council have said is likely defective.
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 08:06
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Sorry for being a novice but is it step 4 I do because all the other steps I seem to be accepting the fine? I'm not sure which one.
Thanks That is for page 3. I think I'm confused. Is it Page 2 I fill out then, there doesent seem to be a section that asked for details without me admitting to it, either accepting the fine and 3 points and or the course. |
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 08:41
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Ah, it's an A&S 'Super NIP'.
Most forces send out the s172 first and then respond with CoFP/Course offers but A&S include it all in one go. It's a procedural shortcut when the keeper was driving. But as I said the s172 part has to be responded to. You do not have to use their form but must provide the relevant driver information and signature. If you 'challenge' the underlying offence as part of that nomination it may then be processed for court (assuming they progress in light of the above) and methods of avoiding a prosecution may be lost. Although, if just the nomination is made they'll probably provide a CoFP anyway. This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 08:42 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 11:10
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#57
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Fill out step 1 and 3.
I would for the moment request a speed awareness course in step 2 which will drag things out for about six weeks and give time to get your ducks in line about the TRO. If you don't take up the SAC then it normally reverts to a fixed penalty so you haven't lost anything. You are potentially burning a bridge here because of the (not particularly helpful) way A&S combine S172 and fixed penalty, but highly likely not. Also IMO highly likely the TRO will be defective because I cannot see how the council can claim they have correctly named the road. It is almost certainly a mistake on their map. But of course it depends what they come back with. |
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 12:59
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 725 Joined: 7 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,066 |
Ah, it's an A&S 'Super NIP'. Most forces send out the s172 first and then respond with CoFP/Course offers but A&S include it all in one go. It's a procedural shortcut when the keeper was driving. But as I said the s172 part has to be responded to. You do not have to use their form but must provide the relevant driver information and signature. If you 'challenge' the underlying offence as part of that nomination it may then be processed for court (assuming they progress in light of the above) and methods of avoiding a prosecution may be lost. Although, if just the nomination is made they'll probably provide a CoFP anyway. Can I not just reply with name address on a piece of paper saying the form was damaged it, it is a bit Fill out step 1 and 3. I would for the moment request a speed awareness course in step 2 which will drag things out for about six weeks and give time to get your ducks in line about the TRO. If you don't take up the SAC then it normally reverts to a fixed penalty so you haven't lost anything. You are potentially burning a bridge here because of the (not particularly helpful) way A&S combine S172 and fixed penalty, but highly likely not. Also IMO highly likely the TRO will be defective because I cannot see how the council can claim they have correctly named the road. It is almost certainly a mistake on their map. But of course it depends what they come back with. Surely this route im admitting to it , I dont think I will get the spped awareness course as I did a course under 3 years ago , so will surely get a fixed penalty and 3 points. Is there no way legally I could just sent my details back without taking up any of the offers? |
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:20
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If you don't comply with the requirement whether you tick a box for one of the options or not is irrelevant. It admits nothing.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 22 Mar 2018 - 13:21
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#60
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Ah, it's an A&S 'Super NIP'. Most forces send out the s172 first and then respond with CoFP/Course offers but A&S include it all in one go. It's a procedural shortcut when the keeper was driving. But as I said the s172 part has to be responded to. You do not have to use their form but must provide the relevant driver information and signature. If you 'challenge' the underlying offence as part of that nomination it may then be processed for court (assuming they progress in light of the above) and methods of avoiding a prosecution may be lost. Although, if just the nomination is made they'll probably provide a CoFP anyway. Can I not just reply with name address on a piece of paper saying the form was damaged it, it is a bit Fill out step 1 and 3. I would for the moment request a speed awareness course in step 2 which will drag things out for about six weeks and give time to get your ducks in line about the TRO. If you don't take up the SAC then it normally reverts to a fixed penalty so you haven't lost anything. You are potentially burning a bridge here because of the (not particularly helpful) way A&S combine S172 and fixed penalty, but highly likely not. Also IMO highly likely the TRO will be defective because I cannot see how the council can claim they have correctly named the road. It is almost certainly a mistake on their map. But of course it depends what they come back with. Surely this route im admitting to it , I dont think I will get the spped awareness course as I did a course under 3 years ago , so will surely get a fixed penalty and 3 points. Is there no way legally I could just sent my details back without taking up any of the offers? You're admitting to being the driver. That is all. You probably wil receive a CoFP. Which you can choose to accept, or go to court instead. -------------------- |
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