wrong address from CEL private ticket = unknown CCJ - can I challenge?, Threads merged x3 Options

[Nelson23]

Hello,

Im looking for some advice please on a private parking ticket from CEL I was issued with that I knew nothing about for nearly 2 years thats resulted in a CCJ against me that I also knew nothing about for 6+ months until now:

(I ve read other topics that relate to wrong address and local authority tickets, who you can communicate with, but could nt see anything relating to a private company fining you)

July 2015 - moved house + Royal Mail redirected mail for a couple of months
Jan 2016 - apparently got a parking ticket issued by CEL - though didnt know this yet - all details all to old address so unaware of this.
Jan 2017 - I think a CCJ was issued against me by CEL for not paying the above fine - all details to old address so unaware of this.
April 2017 - sold the car the ticket related to + gave the new owner all the paperwork.
October 2017 - wanted to change energy providers, who said no, and when I asked why they said I had a CCJ against me - first I knew about this.
October 2017 - paid to get brief details off the internet of the CCJ and callled Northampton CCBC who could only give brief details of the case reference.
October 2017 - multiple calls and emails to CEL who wont give me details/ respond about the original parking ticket and CCJ (Im still unaware what either are for/where).

On the limited info I know, I can only conclude that I ve probably messed up, I ve probably forgot to get the V5 for my old cars address updated thats resulted in this, it was the only address I didnt change when moving. Its not excuse but I was going through a very stressful time moving house and with work. I ve requested old V5 docs from DVLA, as the previous keeper, and waiting for these to come back before I can confirm this.

Im not fighting the original ticket - eventhough I know nothing about it yet - I want to challenge the fact that if I d known about the ticket I would have paid up straight away + if I d have known about the CCJ I would have appealed/challenged this within the allowed period (a month?). I have no recollection what the tickets for tbh and CEL wont give me any details so I think to get a CCJ so very unreasonable resulting from my V5 address admin error, not ignorance or refusal to pay a parking ticket which seems what the process of a CCJ is for.

I think the original parking ticket was for £70 but CCBC has said this is now £236 plus £350, and also now I have a CCJ thats halved my credit rating from over 400 to nearly 200 for mortgages etc for 6 years - which will be the biggest cost moving forward.

Can you advise me if you think its even worth applying to get my CCJ 'set aside'?

I ve got the N244 forms for this and know its £255 that I wont get back. I have all records from land registry, local council tax bills for years to prove when I bought and sold my house. Im willing to go to Northampton and appear in court/room to say my bit, I only live 45 mins from CCBC. As of today, I have no records sent to my current address about either the parking ticket or CCJ.

Does the judge even have the power to reset the fine to its original ticket? I ve not paid the parking ticket fine £350 yet as wondered if this weakened any appeal etc.

I find it unfair that Civil Enforcement Ltd can be such a closed shop to now allow any option when you contact them , apart from paying, naturally it pushes up the costs further against me - all part of their business model I expect. I cant talk to CEL so they wont update my address to send any new letters to etc.

My 'set aside' defence to the judge will be along the lines of:

I acknowledge I messed up with the V5 address not being changed over 2 years ago when I moved. If I knew about the parking ticket I would have paid ASAP. I only knew about the ticket years after it was issued, and the CCJ < a month ago, so I ve been unable to challenge either until now. CEL are uncommunicative to either discuss or understand what the ticket + CCJ are for - this is unreasonable at best. In my favour, CCBC said that the box is unticked to show that CEL did not send to my old address the further information (called a certificate of service?) they are obliged to send - eventhough this would ve gone to my old address so I would nt have seen it. Can I claim CEL has not followed correct procedure as well? I will submit the old V5 when DVLA send it to me. I have multiple phone records and emails to CEL showing I ve been trying to contact them since October 2017...but no response - why would they, they are making lots of money out of me this way so far.

I feel im in a weak position, ideally I d pay the original fine for the ticket I know nothing about. I find it astonishing you can legally have a CCJ against you without knowing. All the odds feel in favour of CEL who exploit the system because of my original error in not changing the V5 when I moved house 2 years ago to enable CEL to make even more money out of me + trash my credit rating as well.

Many thanks for your time and any advice you can offer. Please be blunt, if I dont have a chance of set aside please let me know what you think.

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[ostell]

Don't acknowledge any errors. CEL, or their solicitor, are under a duty to ensure that the claim is issued to the correct address. It is not unreasonable for someone to move address after they have got details from the DVLA, and the DVLA are not the fastest people to updaye their records. They are not allowed to go back a second time. The lack of response from the previous address should have triggered a requirement to use a tracing service to find you.

If you apply for a set aside then it would be at your local court. Because CEL did not do any reasonable checking before raising the claim you can ask for your £255 back because of their slovenly procedures.

If the charge (not a fine!) from CEL was £350 then that's a bit high and if you can get a copy of the NTK from CEL, possibly on the order of the court, then you can possibly fight it. Remember you are the keeper, do not identify any possible driver.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 - 10:32

[cabbyman]

Under normal circumstances, CEL are very easy to beat. You should be able to walk away from this without paying them a penny.

[nosferatu1001]

Have you looked at other set asides?

If you can show the claim was never served, the set aside should be automatic. This requires you show
A) that it was obvious you moved. Lack of reply to letters, length of time from when the issue started to the claim form, they’re all things to show.
B) that with 5 minutes of effort you were “there to be found”. You were on electoral register, ciuncil tax, utility etc. Therefore they did not ensure the claim was served, and as such you ask the set aside to be granted automatically


You need a draft order that states you wish the court to set aside the judgement, to order the claimant to,pay your set aside fee of £255 within 14 days, as the set aside has nothing to do with the hearing, and that you wish the court to just dismiss the whole claim, as your defence shows ....

You MUST try to get the set aside back at the hearing. The claimant will discontinue before the actual hearing and you never get anyncosts.

[Nelson23]

Hello,

I would really welcome any advice you may have on my draft witness statement for a N244 reply to the below scenario (thank you):

July 2015 - moved house + Royal Mail redirected mail for a couple of months
Jan 2016 - apparently got a parking ticket issued by CEL - though didnt know this yet - all details all to old address so unaware of this.
Jan 2017 - I think a CCJ was issued against me by CEL for not paying the above fine - all details to old address so unaware of this.
April 2017 - sold the car the ticket related to + gave the new owner all the paperwork.
October 2017 - wanted to change energy providers, who said no, and when I asked why they said I had a CCJ against me - first I knew about this.
October 2017 - paid to get brief details off the internet of the CCJ and callled Northampton CCBC who could only give brief details of the case reference.
October 2017 - multiple calls and emails to CEL who wont give me details/ respond about the original parking ticket and CCJ (Im still unaware what either are for/where).

DRAFT WITNESS STATEMENT:

BETWEEN:
Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimant)
v
XXXXXXXXX (Defendant)

________________________________

WITNESS STATEMENT

________________________________

 
I am XXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXXXX and I am the Defendant in this matter.
This Witness Statement is in support of my application dated 20/11/2017 to
• Set aside the Default Judgement dated 29/12/2016 as it was not properly served at my current address;
• Order for the original claim to be dismissed.

1. Default Judgement

1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant on 29/12/2016. However, this claim form has not been served at my current address and I thus was not aware of the Default Judgement until 01/10/2017. I understand that this Claim was served at XXXXXXXXXXXXXX however this was not my address because I moved away from there, and to my current address on 20/07/2015. In support of this I am attaching a letter from my solicitor (dated XXXX) showing the date I moved address to my new address. I also attach an email from XXXXX Council (dated XXXX) confirming when I applied for my new council tax for my current address. I also attach my current council tax bill, showing I still live at the property.
1.2. I have also never received any previous documentation from the Claimant in this matter, or in relation to the original parking ticket. Thus, I was never able to properly challenge the Claimant’s claim and to resolve this matter through industrial arbitration to which the Claimant subscribes.
1.3. On 02/10/2017 I received an email from First Utility advising me they would not accept my application to be my new energy supplier because my credit score was to low (see attached evidence). Upon investigating this, I found that my credit score had decreased by over 50% (see attached evidence) due to a CCJ I was unaware of that had been issued against me by the Claimant on 29/12/2016.
1.4. On 02/10/2017 I went online and paid to see search and download details of the CCJ against me (see attached evidence from website). I then phoned County Court Business Centre (CCBC) to understand what the CCJ against me was for, they provided me with a case number, date, and amount. Both CCBC and the online search confirmed that all correspondence for the CCJ were sent to my old previous address at XXXXXXXXXX.
1.5. When I moved away from my old address at XXXXXXXXXXXXX on 20/07/2015 I set up a Royal Mail post divert for 2 months (see bank statement evidence showing I paid this at 2 x £30 per month). I was trying to capture undiverted mail, though I could not do this forever.
1.6. For the vehicle in question that I presume this claim relates to, I have checked with the DVLA and I was registered keeper from 26/10/2007 to16/04/2017. I can only presume I did not update my registered keepers details for this vehicle (registration XXXXXXX) when I moved address on 20/07/2015 which was an honest mistake on my part. Unfortunately, as I sold this vehicle on 16/04/2017, I gave all the paperwork for the car to the new owner over 5 months before I was aware of the default judgement and so unable to check exactly when I updated the registered owner’s details on the vehicles V5 document. I have been unable to contact the new owner of the vehicle. I have since contacted the DVLA (see evidence attached) who could only confirm I was the registered keeper between 2007 and 2017. Due to data laws, they could not confirm the previous address for me as this keeper, or when it changed.
1.7. After moving house on 20/07/2015, I presume the Claimant acquired details from the DVLA of the registered keeper before I had updated the registered keepers details with my new address. I presume therefore that the Claimant was sent details by the DVLA which showed my old address at XXXXXXXXX. I admit I did not change the details of the registered keeper until an unknown period after I had moved address, this was an honest mistake that I take responsibility for. This means the vehicles V5 document would not have been updated to show my current address so the Claimant was sending correspondence to an incorrect address to contact me at.
1.8. However, I believe that the Claimant should have realised that having never, ever received any correspondence in return from me (the defendant) since they presumably started writing to me on 29/12/2016 (or before in relation to a parking ticket) then it was more than likely I did not live at this property any longer. I attach bank statements (see evidence from 2015 and 2016) that show I regularly paid utility bills and council tax every month since I moved away from XXXXXXXXXXX on 20/07/2015. I also attach a utility bill dated 08/12/2016 – so before the default judgement of 29/12/2016 – showing my current address and that it was possible to locate my new address, if a search had been carried out by the Claimant. It was therefore possible, if the Claimant had searched, or used a tracing service, to be able to find me reasonably quickly on either the Councils public register, or through publicly available information about my name and residence as I have an active credit and banking footprint since I moved to my current address on 20/07/2015. I believe the Claimants slovenly procedures have, resulting from my initial honest mistake in delaying when I updated my V5 document, resulted in the default judgement occurring through taking advantage of the consequences of this delay, creating increased financial gain for the Claimant by not tracing my new address.
1.9. At the date of this witness statement, I am still yet to receive any correspondence from the Claimant about this default judgement, so a search has never been made by the Claimant. Due to correspondence going to my old address, I have been unable to find out any details whatsoever about the cause of the default judgement, details of the presumable parking ticket against XXXXXXX that I was registered keeper for. As I was unaware of the parking ticket, this has built up and resulted in a default judgement against me that I have been unable to defend as I knew nothing about it until 02/10/2017 because the Claimant had sent all correspondence to my old address, and has never searched for my current address to update their details about me.
1.10. Also, upon being informed of the default judgement, I have tried numerous times to communicate with, and discuss this default judgement with the Claimant. I have made numerous calls to the phone number I tracked down for the Claimaint’s legal department. Unfortunately, no one has ever answered the phone or returned any calls from (XXXXXXXXXX) and responded to any of the voicemail's I have left to discuss this matter. I have also emailed the Claimant (see attached evidence) on 03/10/2017, again they are yet to reply. So, even now having been aware of the default judgement, I remain unable to give the Claimant my correct address details of my current address. The Claimant also appears unwilling to communicate with me whatsoever, and doesn’t provide a reasonable opportunity to allow this process to happen.
1.11. On the basis of details provided above I would suggest that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendant’s current address when bringing the claim, and instead deliberately allowed the default judgement to occur without trying to find my correct address using publicly available information and / or a tracing service.
1.12. The consequences of the default judgement are already having an impact on me financially. I have had to pay a £300 retainer to First Utility (see attached evidence) before they would be my utility provide moving forward when my current energy deal finished recently. The retainer was required because my credit score had dropped because of the default judgement. I never experienced any issues obtaining credit before the default judgement was made on 29/12/2016. I am also concerned that the default judgement will inhibit my future ability to acquire credit – all this because of a honest mistake and subsequent opportunism to take advantage of this by the Claimant.
1.13. Considering the above, I was unable to defend this claim properly. I thus believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside. I ask the Court to kindly also consider my request for the reimbursement of the fee of £255 from the claimant should this set aside request be successful.

2. Order dismissing the Claim

2.1. I dispute the claim in its entirety when I was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle as I am unable to understand what the Claimant is claiming for.
2.2. I also believe that, when I the Registered Keeper, I should have been served with a Notice to Keeper by the Claimant which needs to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. One such requirement is that this notice is served within 14 days of the date of the alleged incident. Since I have not received any documentation from the Claimant prior to finding out about the Default Judgement, I believe the Claimant will not have complied with the requirements of the Act and thus cannot claim this charge against me as the Registered Keeper in any case.
2.3. CCBC also confirmed to me that the Claimant had not provided a certificate of service. Therefore, even if the Claimant had used my current, correct address then the claim is void as I would not have received all the information to enable me to understand the (presumed) parking ticket and subsequent default judgement. The Claimants inability to follow standard process is another reason the default judgement should be set aside.
2.4. On this basis I believe that the Claimant has not provided any reasonable cause of action, so the claim should be dismissed in its entirety and I should be reimbursed my set aside fee of £255..


Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Full name: XXXXXX
Date XXXX

[Nelson23]

Hello,

Can anyone please offer any advice or comments on the draft witness statement I ve produced using links on here for my situation please:

July 2015 - moved house + Royal Mail redirected mail for a couple of months
Jan 2016 - apparently got a parking ticket issued by CEL - though didnt know this yet - all details all to old address so unaware of this.
Jan 2017 - I think a CCJ was issued against me by CEL for not paying the above fine - all details to old address so unaware of this.
April 2017 - sold the car the ticket related to + gave the new owner all the paperwork.
October 2017 - wanted to change energy providers, who said no, and when I asked why they said I had a CCJ against me - first I knew about this.
October 2017 - paid to get brief details off the internet of the CCJ and callled Northampton CCBC who could only give brief details of the case reference.
October 2017 - multiple calls and emails to CEL who wont give me details/ respond about the original parking ticket and CCJ (Im still unaware what either are for/where).

BETWEEN:
Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimant)
v
XXXXXXX (Defendant)

________________________________

WITNESS STATEMENT

________________________________

 
I am XXXXX of XXXXXXXXX and I am the Defendant in this matter.
This Witness Statement is in support of my application dated 20/11/2017 to
• Set aside the Default Judgement dated 29/12/2016 as it was not properly served at my current address;
• Order for the original claim to be dismissed.

1. Default Judgement

1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant on XXXXXXX. However, this claim form has not been served at my current address and I thus was not aware of the Default Judgement until 01/10/2017. I understand that this Claim was served at XXXXXXXXXX however this was not my address because I moved away from there, and to my current address on 20/07/2015. In support of this I am attaching a letter from my solicitor (dated XXXX) showing the date I moved address to my new address. I also attach an email from XXXXXXXXXX District Council (dated XXXX) confirming when I applied for my new council tax for my current address. I also attach my current council tax bill, showing I still live at the property.
1.2. I have also never received any previous documentation from the Claimant in this matter, or in relation to the original parking ticket. Thus, I was never able to properly challenge the Claimant’s claim and to resolve this matter through industrial arbitration to which the Claimant subscribes.
1.3. On 02/10/2017 I received an email from First Utility advising me they would not accept my application to be my new energy supplier because my credit score was to low (see attached evidence). Upon investigating this, I found that my credit score had decreased by over 50% (see attached evidence) due to a CCJ I was unaware of that had been issued against me by the Claimant on 29/12/2016.
1.4. On 02/10/2017 I went online and paid to see search and download details of the CCJ against me (see attached evidence from website). I then phoned County Court Business Centre (CCBC) to understand what the CCJ against me was for, they provided me with a case number, date, and amount. Both CCBC and the online search confirmed that all correspondence for the CCJ were sent to my old previous address at XXXXXXXXX
1.5. When I moved away from my old address at XXXXXXXXXXXXX on 20/07/2015 I set up a Royal Mail post divert for 2 months (see bank statement evidence showing I paid this at 2 x £30 per month). I was trying to capture undiverted mail, though I could not do this forever.
1.6. For the vehicle in question that I presume this claim relates to, I have checked with the DVLA and I was registered keeper from 26/10/2007 to 16/04/2017. I can only presume I did not update my registered keepers details for this vehicle (XXXXXXX) when I moved address on 20/07/2015 which was an honest mistake on my part. Unfortunately, as I sold this vehicle on 16/04/2017, I gave all the paperwork for the car to the new owner over 5 months before I was aware of the default judgement and so unable to check exactly when I updated the registered owner’s details on the vehicles V5 document. I have been unable to contact the new owner of the vehicle. I have since contacted the DVLA (see evidence attached) who could only confirm I was the registered keeper between 2007 and 2017. Due to data laws, they could not confirm the previous address for me as this keeper, or when it changed.
1.7. After moving house on 20/07/2015, I presume the Claimant acquired details from the DVLA of the registered keeper before I had updated the registered keepers details with my new address. I presume therefore that the Claimant was sent details by the DVLA which showed my old address at XXXXXXXXXXXX. I admit I did not change the details of the registered keeper until an unknown period after I had moved address, this was an honest mistake that I take responsibility for. This means the vehicles V5 document would not have been updated to show my current address so the Claimant was sending correspondence to an incorrect address to contact me at.
1.8. However, I believe that the Claimant should have realised that having never, ever received any correspondence in return from me (the defendant) since they presumably started writing to me on 29/12/2016 (or before in relation to a parking ticket) then it was more than likely I did not live at this property any longer. I attach bank statements (see evidence from 2015 and 2016) that show I regularly paid utility bills and council tax every month since I moved away from XXXXXXXXXXXX on 20/07/2015. I also attach a utility bill dated 08/12/2016 – so before the default judgement of 29/12/2016 – showing my current address and that it was possible to locate my new address, if a search had been carried out by the Claimant. It was therefore possible, if the Claimant had searched, or used a tracing service, to be able to find me reasonably quickly on either the Councils public register, or through publicly available information about my name and residence as I have an active credit and banking footprint since I moved to my current address on 20/07/2015. I believe the Claimants slovenly procedures have, resulting from my initial honest mistake in delaying when I updated my V5 document, resulted in the default judgement occurring through taking advantage of the consequences of this delay, creating increased financial gain for the Claimant by not tracing my new address.
1.9. At the date of this witness statement, I am still yet to receive any correspondence from the Claimant about this default judgement, so a search has never been made by the Claimant. Due to correspondence going to my old address, I have been unable to find out any details whatsoever about the cause of the default judgement, details of the presumable parking ticket against XXXXXX that I was registered keeper for. As I was unaware of the parking ticket, this has built up and resulted in a default judgement against me that I have been unable to defend as I knew nothing about it until 02/10/2017 because the Claimant had sent all correspondence to my old address, and has never searched for my current address to update their details about me.
1.10. Also, upon being informed of the default judgement, I have tried numerous times to communicate with, and discuss this default judgement with the Claimant. I have made numerous calls to the phone number I tracked down for the Claimaint’s legal department. Unfortunately, no one has ever answered the phone or returned any calls from (0115 8225020) and responded to any of the voicemails I have left to discuss this matter. I have also emailed the Claimant (see attached evidence) on 03/10/2017, again they are yet to reply. So, even now having been aware of the default judgement, I remain unable to give the Claimant my correct address details of my current address. The Claimant also appears unwilling to communicate with me whatsoever, and doesn’t provide a reasonable opportunity to allow this process to happen.
1.11. On the basis of details provided above I would suggest that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendant’s current address when bringing the claim, and instead deliberately allowed the default judgement to occur without trying to find my correct address using publically available information and / or a tracing service.
1.12. The consequences of the default judgement are already having an impact on me financially. I have had to pay a £300 retainer to First Utility (see attached evidence) before they would be my utility provide moving forward when my current energy deal finished recently. The retainer was required because my credit score had dropped because of the default judgement. I never experienced any issues obtaining credit before the default judgement was made on 29/12/2016. I am also concerned that the default judgement will inhibit my future ability to acquire credit – all this because of a honest mistake and subsequent opportunism to take advantage of this by the Claimant.
1.13. Considering the above, I was unable to defend this claim properly. I thus believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside. I ask the Court to kindly also consider my request for the reimbursement of the fee of £255 from the claimant should this set aside request be successful.

2. Order dismissing the Claim

2.1. I dispute the claim in its entirety since I as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle am unable to understand what the Claimant is claiming for.
2.2. I also believe that as the Registered Keeper I should have been served with a Notice to Keeper by the Claimant which needs to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. One such requirement is that this notice is served within 14 days of the date of the alleged incident. Since I have not received any documentation from the Claimant prior to finding out about the Default Judgement, I believe the Claimant will not have complied with the requirements of the Act and thus cannot claim this charge against me as the Registered Keeper in any case.
2.3. CCBC also confirmed to me that the Claimant had not provided a certificate of service. Therefore, even if the Claimant had used my current, correct address then the claim is void as I would not have received all the information to enable me to understand the (presumed) parking ticket and subsequent default judgement. The Claimants inability to follow standard process is another reason the default judgement should be set aside.
2.4. On this basis I believe that the Claimant has not provided any reasonable cause of action and thus the claim should be dismissed in its entirety.


Statement of Truth:
I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
Full name: XXXXXXXXX

Many thanks for any advice you can offer me.

Regards

Adam

[peterguk]

OP. You need to stop starting new threads. This forum operates a "one case - one thread policy".

A mod will merge with your other two threads:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=117036&hl=

and

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=116620&hl=

[Nelson23]

sorry about that, thanks for merging them.

[Nelson23]

hi,

i ve got my hearing date this Friday in the local court. Probably a silly question, but is my defence my witness statement that I expand on now and add in extra evidence (photos, proof of new address, when moved house etc - I was going to add these an an appendices in the back)?

How many copies of my defence do I take? I was thinking 3 - one for my, the judge and CEL representative - if they turn up.

In court, do I just talk through my defence after giving a copy to the judge?

Thanks for any advice you can provide, I ll feedback how I get on

Regards.

[SchoolRunMum]

is my defence my witness statement

Not normally, but yes in the case of a hearing regarding a set aside application.

How many copies of my defence do I take? I was thinking 3 - one for my, the judge and CEL representative - if they turn up.

Yes, sounds fair.

CEL are unlikely to turn up and you should ask the Judge to order that your £255 set aside fee is either refunded by CEL now as a result of their unreasonableness and procedural failures (including not bothering to turn up this week, not presenting any evidence, not following the pre-action protocol, not bothering to check that you were at the address, with a simple trace).

Or, in the alternative, (if he/she says they will 'reserve' the matter of costs to the next hearing, the one about the actual claim, rather than just the CCJ set aside) ask the Judge to order that the Claimant do pay the Defendant's costs including travel, missed work/leave and £255 set aside fee, in the event that CEL now discontinue, having utterly wasted your time and put you through Hell.

I ve got the N244 forms for this and know its £255 that I wont get back.

Lose that mindset, look:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5581374

That case was one where the Defendant argued 'unreasonableness' and that the Claimant should pay the £255.

More usual is this, where it takes longer to get the £255 back:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...79#post73204979

...where the Judge agrees to set aside the CCJ as the claim was never received, but that resets the case to evidence exchange and a new hearing, which CEL usually just discontinue and hope the Defendant doesn't know to ask the court for their wasted costs.

In court, do I just talk through my defence after giving a copy to the judge?

Expect to be questioned on why the claim was not received, what steps you took to inform the DVLA of your correct address, and how quickly you acted as soon as you learned about this rogue CCJ from a notorious repeat offender...parking firms were singled out by the Government for this unfair practice:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/20...iew-due-to.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-meas...rom-debt-claims

You might not need to cover much in the way of defence, except to show you have reasonable prospects of defending.

DO NOT FORGET to ask about the £255 and to tell the Judge that CEL normally discontinue after this stage, having failed to extract payment from a victim, and you are concerned that there will be no second hearing and your £255 will be forgotten, and CEL will just disappear as they always do. Ask for that to be addressed in the Order, before you leave the room, so you know that is covered.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 21:49

[nosferatu1001]

We CANNOT reiterate this enough: You MUST ask to either get the £255 back (assuming you win the set aside) within 14 days OR in the event that CEL discontinue

CEL routinely DO NOT apply for a hearing after a successful set aside, and therefore if any costs were reserved for the hearing, you LOSE THOSE COSTS - because thee is no hearing to hear them in. Ugh, horrid sentence. This is because they dont actually want to EVER turn up to a hearing, so discontinue anyway, and they know if they go to a hearing there is another £255 on the line for them.

[Nelson23]

Hi,

An update following my hearing yesterday with the judge:

CEL didnt show up (of course). Hearing took about 15 mins, judge asked questions about why CEL had nt contacted me and if/how I d tried contacting them. Judge seemed naive to the world of parking ticket enforcement culture in this industry. Accepted CPR and he 'could choose' to set a side my claim to have the CCJ dismissed, which he agreed to. Judge to write a service of order to CEL so within 7 days they must send me details of the original offence/ticket/claim for me to assess (as I ve never received these, or anything to do with the CCJ etc). If this not received to my address in 7 days the original claim is also dismissed.

On costs, I asked for my £255 fee to be paid now. Judge would not agree to this as he said it was linked to the original claim and (even-though I didnt) if I had received the claim then the CCJ was a fair claim following , but they just didnt send paperwork. So, if at a future hearing about the claim they will send me then I could recover the £255 then at the same time. I argued all your advice above, they have never communicated with me, never answer calls, emails, turned up for the hearing, provided evidence etc so why will they change in the future at another hearing? It didnt t work anyway, as I said he appeared naive on this industries culture and practise.

I really want to say thank you for everyone's help and advice on here. I would never have got this far without your support and advice- thank you. I feel like Im partially successful. I have set aside the CCJ which helps my finances long term. I m not going to get my £255 back as I doubt CCJ will send me anything in the next 7 days after receiving the judges service of order. If they do, I ll gladly fight this further at another hearing.

Thank you all again.

[ostell]

So when it gets to CEL failing to deliver then write to the judge and ask for your costs.

[ostell]

So when it gets to CEL failing to deliver then write to the judge and ask for your costs.

[nosferatu1001]

Indeed, assuming they go to form, and discontinue or let the claim be struck out, you then ask the court for your costs
Write to the same judge and state they clearly had no intention of turning up to a defended hearing .

[Nelson23]

my case has taken an unexpected twist.

CEL never showed for the set aside 2 weeks ago and the judge wrote giving CEL 7 days to send me details of the claim against me. I assumed they would nt send anything but they did. Deadline to send me details was 4pm on the 15th Feb and I received a letter from CEL on 11 am on the 16th February. I presume it doesnt matter so much about me, but if and when the court received the paperwork to know if the parking ticket claim is automatically rejected or not now. The letter from CEL was date stamped by Royal Mail as being 15.02.18 and the letter inside was dated 15.02.18 so its clear they could not post and write the letter the same day as I received it - so Im presuming their claim for £350 is automatically rejected as CEL missed the 15.02.18 deadline. Anyone any similar experience of this (eg what happens if the court did receive the paperwork on the 15th)?

Also, all CEL provided was a date, time in and out of car park, location and parking reg of the car plus some template standard text they probably send everyone. I was expecting some photos etc to prove the car went in and out the car park. Can I request these?

If its not automatically thrown out as being a day late to send me the details, my defence still majors around the fact I moved address 6 months before the ticket was issued (so never received any docs about a ticket or CCJ from CEL until for the first time last week) and for 2 years after the 'offence' they could have tracked me down as I was very findable if they had bothered to look but they didnt.

[nosferatu1001]

Why would you presume this?
Has the court actually told you this? Have they rejected the submission as being late, or have they accepted it? Have you let them know it was late?

Youre not "unexpected". Theyre often late. ALL that matters is - does the court give a damn? I bet they wont.

Why would you request MORE info? They were ORDERED to send you details - they did. Crap, sparse details that presumably dont actually show anything of note.

No, your SET ASIDE reason was that they could have found you in 2 years. Thats what got the set aside granted

Your defence for WHY YOU ARE NOT LIABLE for the parking charge must be different. Because its a different topic.

[Redivi]

Courts give parking companies and their solicitors a lot more slack when it comes to missing deadlines than they give the amateur defendants
I have, however, had a couple of cases struck out when it could be shown that CEL faked the dates on the Particulars
If you don't ask the claim to be struck out for knowingly failing to follow the court order, you don't get

As Nosferatu has said, the set aside has been granted and the clock has now been reset to original claim
Everything about moving house is now irrelevant

There are plenty of threads about defending CEL claims
They all have the same features :

No details in the Particulars of Claim - request that claim is struck out for no cause of action
Signed by "Legal Department" not a company officer - request that claim is struck out as Statement of Truth not correctly signed
Fake Legal Representative fee
Fake debt collector charge
Fake solicitor charge
Failure to meet conditions of Protection of Freedoms Act to recover payment from registered keeper
Inadequate signs in breach of British Parking Association Code of Practice
No authority from the land-owner to take legal action
No contract with the land-owner at all

Never ask for evidence from a parking company
It implies that you owe the payment if they can produce it

[Nelson23]

An update on my case since I posted on 20th February, the judge rejected CEL's evidence as it was late and poor quality (which was my latest defence). I then received a letter from the court saying the case had been dismissed - so I was in the clear finally on the ticket and CCJ.

About 6 weeks ago, I then emailed back the court to re ask about getting my £255 application fee reimbursed (judge would nt agree to this in January as he wanted to give CEL chance to reply even though they didn't appear at the original hearing).

It went quiet/to the bottom of the pile - finally got an order through from the court stating the CEL must reimburse my £255 cost of application within 10 days or challenge the decision.....a week later and today a cheque has come through the door from my dear friends at CEL (Star Park Management Ltd) for £255 !!!

Just need to bank it now, will it bounce (doubt it with all the money they appear to be making !!)

Again, thanks for all your help on this to you on this board. I never thought I d get any costs back, especially as the judge didnt agree to this at my original hearing. Most posts I ve read have had similar things happen to them. I think the difference on this occasion is the real limited engagement and response from CEL. As people have written, the business for them is about you caving in and not fighting your corner...CEL dont want a fight and wont put any resource into this -so be patient, state your case and follow it through to the end.

[Redivi]

Excellent result and thanks for coming back

CEL had no option but to pay the order

They can't access the DVLA database unless they're members of the BPA (or the IPC)
A condition of BPA membership is no unpaid judgments

This post has been edited by Redivi: Sat, 26 May 2018 - 11:27