Wrong address provided by rental company for speeding |
Wrong address provided by rental company for speeding |
Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:12
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
Hi Folks
Hopefully someone can help me out here... So about 6 months ago - I get a email from my rental car company greenmotion stating I got a speeding ticket (26 in a 20) and they would be passing on my details to the police. They charged me an admin fee for this too. The date of offence was 10th March 2018. So I was expecting the details from the police but nothing came - so I didn't think anything of it. Then the other day my next door neighbour passed me a letter only by coincidence saying it might be for me. Sure enough, it was a letter from a county central finance department chasing up this fine - which is now £811. Now clearly I had no idea these letters were going to my neighbours...but now that I do whats the best way for me to handle this? The wrong address is clearly greenmotions fault - they got the door number wrong to my address. My license has the correct address which they also had (as well as my ID proof of address all with correct details!) but they clearly passed on wrong details they had on their records to the police. Thoughts? Much appreciated! This post has been edited by madhshy: Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:26 |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:12
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:39
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
You need to perform a Statutory Declaration at court, which will wipe out the conviction and then handle what happens next.
It's certain you were not convicted of speeding as you never named yourself as the driver, so when the police didn't hear back they would have proceeded to Failing to Furnish charge. If you check your online licence record with the DVLA it's highly likely you will see an MS90 conviction and 6 points. Doing the SD will get this removed. So when the SD is performed, you will probably be asked to plead to the charges. Now if they have dual charged you for both the speeding and FtF then there is a possibility you can plead guilty to the speeding if they agree to drop the FtF charge. The alternative is to plead not guilty to the FtF charge and defend it, which you would have a good chance of winning based on the S172 request from the police going to the wrong address due to no fault of yours. You need to get the SD process moving as a matter of urgency. |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:49
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
holy $hit your spot on BaggleBoy - just checked and I have 6 points under MS90 - I had no bloody idea!
Ok im gonna get the SD process going (googling now) but im hoping its just a case of talking to a local solicitor and getting an appointment at the court.... i guess I can plead not guilty to the FtF as you say - and makes sense given I didnt have a chance to object. Is there any reason why would I loose as clearly this admin issue isnt my fault? |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 00:54
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
No need to talk to a solicitor, just ask the magistrates court for a day to perform a statutory declaration, preferably the court that dealt with your case.
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 01:06
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
the court that sent the fine is pretty far up north...is there a chance I will have to go up there in order to defend my case vs pleading guilty? If so its almost certainly not worth the bother for me.
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 02:42
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
See if your local court will do it, if you do the routine deal of pleading guilty to the speeding provided they drop the s.172 there seems no reason why not. A bit more problematic if you are simply going to defend the s.172 but worth asking.
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 07:19
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
If the address on the rental agreement is correct you have a good case for pleading not guilty, you shouldn’t be penalised for an error by them. If the address on the rental agreement is correct your case is less strong as presumably you signed that agreement?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 09:32
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 291 Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Member No.: 59,321 |
If the address on the rental agreement is correct you have a good case for pleading not guilty, you shouldn’t be penalised for an error by them. If the address on the rental agreement is incorrect your case is less strong as presumably you signed that agreement? Totally agree with this but with typo corrected. |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 10:58
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
So yes I did sign the agreement with the wrong address there's no doubt about that.
But my original rental booking via an agent and my DVLA details.and the proof of ID that I provided on the day all had the correct details. Will any of that count? |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 11:01
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Its a long shot, yes it counts but whether the court would accept it as an absolute defence I think is open to a lot of debate.
The issue is that the MS90 really loads your insurance plus the fine is a lot higher, so an unsuccessful defence will see you about £1150 worse off on the day plus probably another few hundred on premiums plus having 3 more points on your licence, I’d say you have about a 50% success chance, but let’s see what others think. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 11:18
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I would say that the rental agreement is the definitive document and signing it with the wrong address considerably weakens your defence. As the Rookie says, the important issue is to avoid getting an MS90 on your licence, which will hit you for the next five years. Given that you want to avoid travelling up to the issuing court, which you might well have to do to mount a defence, I would suggest you are best to avoid that and go down the well-trodden path of offering to plead guilty to the speeding if the s.172 is dropped, which hopefully you can do locally. You have a good argument for the court to keep the fine to the fixed penalty level in the circumstances.
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Mon, 26 Nov 2018 - 12:01
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
Cheers folks. Good advice will get that sorted asap.
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Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 21:32
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
So I had my stat declaration today...all fine until they asked me if I wanted to plead guilty to the ftf charge. I asked if I could just plead guilty to the original offense but they said no...So left me no choice but to plead not guilty.
They have set a court date for trial in stratford...So I guess on the day is when I ask if I can plead guilty to just the original offense? This post has been edited by madhshy: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 - 21:35 |
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Wed, 19 Dec 2018 - 07:48
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Yes, although you need (should be sent although its not always reliable) a copy of the original court paperwork to see if you were dual charged or not.
In your case if you are not sent the paperwork as you should be you can ask the court to dismiss the charge, there was some advice somewhere on a solicitors page where they claimed a lot of success with this, will try and find it. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 20 Jan 2019 - 23:34
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#15
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
Thanks for the reply rookie - if you have any links would appreciate it.
This post has been edited by madhshy: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:58 |
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Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 06:36
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
You can still approach the prosecutor before the hearing, explain the situation, tell him you are happy to plead guilty to an out of time charge of speeding if the S172 will be dropped, this has happened but is by no means a shoe in, the prosecutor and the bench both have to agree to ‘bend’ (break really) the rules.
It sounds like you have a copy of the original Single Justice Procedure Notice, so nothing to be gained there. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:58
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#17
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
thanks for the info.
My court date is soon.wish me luck This post has been edited by madhshy: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 20:13 |
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Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 20:14
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#18
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 26 Nov 2018 Member No.: 101,127 |
I won the case Not quite how I expected though...the cps didnt have any of the paperwork so had no choice but to dismiss.
As It was only for the FTF charge, is there any chance they can still come back to me for the original fine? |
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Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 22:09
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
As It was only for the FTF charge, is there any chance they can still come back to me for the original fine? No for two reasons: (1) They have no evidence who was driving and (2) even if they had, since it was more than six months ago it is now too late to begin proceedings. I won the case Not quite how I expected though...the cps didnt have any of the paperwork so had no choice but to dismiss. Was this on Wednesday or Thursday of this week by any chance? There was a major failure in the Court and Police IT systems and all sorts of problems followed. |
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