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need advice on school attendance offence - council taking me to court, exceptional leave requested but denied and now facing court action
chawal2
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 11:41
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hello volunteers,

i know this forum is about motorists and not about school attendance, but i do not have money to hire solicitors and this is criminal court i am being taken to. i have few queries in case someone can answer for me please?

1. if i request for school headteacher as witness will it be a good request - as case rests on him. he did not authorise my exceptional leave request. i have been told i may be asked to pay for his time.

2. can i represent myself or a solicitor is a must in criminal court? i do not have money to pay to solicitor.

3. any solicitor who can help me for free or nominal charge?

4. i am unable to find information on how government expects attendance percentage calculation? council is only using the period around absence which will be low. if they take only period of absence the percentage will infact be zero. biggrin.gif

5. should authorised absences and illnesses also go in calculations for attendance percentage?

6. i have gone through council prosecution - it has wrong facts, wrong dates and portraying me as a regular casual offender using wrong data and wrong interpretation of my exceptional leave request

7. council is showing around 10+ letters that they sent me penalty notice and warnings and reminders about court case. i never got anything until last thursday this court summons for june so v little time is left for me to react and prepare defence and take advice and do research.

8. how can all get lost in post over 6 months period so i suspect they secretly filed court action and created letters but never posted them.

9. and school is counting one absence in prosection which happened before 6 months - i believe they cannot initiate prosecution after 6 months have passed.

i called few organisations but most deal with means based help and not about attendance anyway.

i will be grateful for advice.


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Starworshipper12
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 11:48
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A lot of questions, but perhaps we need the full story, from the start.
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chawal2
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 12:18
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full story:

i could not go to my native country (NC) in august in 2016 as both children had severe chickenpox leading to complication. whole august went in that.
going to my native country makes sense for 3 weeks as it is far and expensive.
i am deeply attached to my parents whom i video chat daily and message several times a day.

i know due to rules they cannot settle here permanently with me so i aim to go once for 3 weeks in a year or 18 months.

so timeline:

case is related to primary school.

1. august 2015 went to my NC with children. then whole academic year 2015 - 2016 no leave taken.
2. august 2016 could not go to NC due to both kids ill and weak due to chickenpox
3. exceptional leave request for 10 days off to combine with october half term so total of 3 weeks to meet my parents in NC and that time my prominent religious festival also fell. leave denied but i had to go as i was desperate. no action taken by school as they had missed my email request.
4. august 2017 could not go to NC as could not spare 3 weeks due to child's tuitions and study schedule in august in preparation for eleven plus exam due to be in 2018 september.
5. in december i only took 2 days extra and visited my parents in NC. again unauthorised. and i made this trip to visit parents after almost 1.5 years.
6. april 2018 my parents had 50th wedding anniversary which is celebrated like wedding - once in lifetime and my parents invited me for the first time and last time as none really celebrates 100th wedding anniversary. i planned to go alone but my spouse was not confident that they can look after child alone or the child could cope with separation so my spouse requested i take my child with me. i requested 5 days exceptional leave due to this. this was denied and penalty notice sent. i did not pay as i explained to council and school that my circumstances were exceptional as i am a migrant and deeply attached to my parents. my spouse and other child who goes to secondary school stayed back in UK for other child studies.

7. august 2018 i could not go to my NC to meet parents as eleven plus exams for my younger child were about to start from 1 september upto october first week. and my older child could not take off from school or go on any trip longer than 3-4 nights due to exams pressure. so the least damaging to children and ensuring my older child can meet my parents once in this academic year too, rather than wait for next august - leading to 2 years gap, i planned to go to my NC in october 2018 and also thought of doing that time religious pilgrimage. so i asked for once in lifetime 10 days religious pilgrimage exceptional leave as october was very auspicious for the said pilgrimage. i met head to explain. but no impact. this exceptional leave was denied. i explained how in secondary school my children will not take any off or even go on trips longer than 3-4 nights even in term break. so this was my last chance for pilgrimage and children were in right age. i explained that after this october trip i will be only able to go in augusts for rest of my forseeable future.

8. after october 2018 trip council never sent me any letters and secretly planned court action for 6 months and then sent me court summons for june.

i am just wondering what wrong i did. i am normal tax abiding citizen.


in any (not all) academic year i took maximum of 10 days off - my migrant and religious minority status makes me disadvantaged and i do leave exceptional life as i am deeply attached to my parents and neither i can move back permanently nor then can join me here permanently. so i need some protection. if head had granted exceptional leave then law would not have applied.


if i miss august then i should not have to wait for one more year to meet parents in NC. and having short trip is not satisfying emotionally and v expensive so we cannot go again and again in one year during term breaks.

i am worried about huge fine and newspaper coverage biggrin.gif
i am highly daunted by being portrayed as criminal by council. i have never faced a criminal court ever.

please advise.

thanks a lot.




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Logician
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 21:13
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QUOTE
1. if i request for school headteacher as witness will it be a good request - as case rests on him. he did not authorise my exceptional leave request. i have been told i may be asked to pay for his time.


There is no point asking him to attend unless you disagree with something he says in his witness statement. If he says he did not authorise your request and you agree he did not authorise it, why do you want him to attend?

QUOTE
2. can i represent myself or a solicitor is a must in criminal court? i do not have money to pay to solicitor.


You can represent yourself, many people do

QUOTE
6. i have gone through council prosecution - it has wrong facts, wrong dates and portraying me as a regular casual offender using wrong data and wrong interpretation of my exceptional leave request

7. council is showing around 10+ letters that they sent me penalty notice and warnings and reminders about court case. i never got anything until last thursday this court summons for june so v little time is left for me to react and prepare defence and take advice and do research.

8. how can all get lost in post over 6 months period so i suspect they secretly filed court action and created letters but never posted them.


Do NOT suggest the school or the Council is being dishonest or malicious unless you can actually prove that. Instead point out all their mistakes and errors and that you never received all the letters they claim to have written, and portray them as confused and incompetent.

You if possible to be disputing the facts the council are putting forward, not arguing that the headmaster made a wrong decision in not allowing exceptional leave. Do not make it about you and you wanting to see your parents, make it about the children and their bond with their grandparents.




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southpaw82
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 21:34
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:13) *
There is no point asking him to attend unless you disagree with something he says in his witness statement. If he says he did not authorise your request and you agree he did not authorise it, why do you want him to attend?

Or he has evidence the defence wants before the court.


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chawal2
post Mon, 13 May 2019 - 23:11
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:13) *
QUOTE
1. if i request for school headteacher as witness will it be a good request - as case rests on him. he did not authorise my exceptional leave request. i have been told i may be asked to pay for his time.


There is no point asking him to attend unless you disagree with something he says in his witness statement. If he says he did not authorise your request and you agree he did not authorise it, why do you want him to attend?

QUOTE
2. can i represent myself or a solicitor is a must in criminal court? i do not have money to pay to solicitor.


You can represent yourself, many people do

QUOTE
6. i have gone through council prosecution - it has wrong facts, wrong dates and portraying me as a regular casual offender using wrong data and wrong interpretation of my exceptional leave request

7. council is showing around 10+ letters that they sent me penalty notice and warnings and reminders about court case. i never got anything until last thursday this court summons for june so v little time is left for me to react and prepare defence and take advice and do research.

8. how can all get lost in post over 6 months period so i suspect they secretly filed court action and created letters but never posted them.


Do NOT suggest the school or the Council is being dishonest or malicious unless you can actually prove that. Instead point out all their mistakes and errors and that you never received all the letters they claim to have written, and portray them as confused and incompetent.

You if possible to be disputing the facts the council are putting forward, not arguing that the headmaster made a wrong decision in not allowing exceptional leave. Do not make it about you and you wanting to see your parents, make it about the children and their bond with their grandparents.


logician i am really grateful for your advice and inputs.


1. why i want headteacher to be witness: i only went on trip because i feel that i live in exceptional circumstances due to my religious minority migrant status. the only reason i went on trip was because i felt i qualified for exceptional leave so headteacher should have approved it. because he did not approve it, so i was found to be in breach of education law.

2. this court case is a result of headteacher's action. prosecution is not adding him as witness, only attendance officer is witness. attendance officer always says, your head did not authorise. full stop. so i was hoping to ask head to be witness to be examined by me so that i and court learn why he did not think my case was exceptional. he never mentioned why he did not think my case was exceptional.

3.so please can you share your thoughts with above knowledge - should i ask him as witness - written or in person? without him there is no cross questioning i believe. no case to be fought. please advise.

4. i can prove that school and legal team are dishonest because attendance register shows 15 days off in period of 5 months and they are saying 30 days!! and they are saying my child (DC) went on unauthorised leave for 10 more days in september whereas we did not go anywhere and attendance register shows DC present.

5. i am so very worried that judge may fine me huge plus council will extract trial cost on top of £1000 already billed by council in court papers. so much so for principles. paying £240 would have been easier but i did not really think i made any offence.

6. can i not fight case also on basis of my human right to family life. not being able to see my parents for extended periods and i can also add grandchildren bit but if i do not add my case then judge might feel once in 2 years seeing grandparents is also ok.

6b. what difference will it make to my case if i successfully prove that multiple facts in prosecution statements are false. still i and prosecution agree that i did go on one occasion for 10 days and other occasion for 5 days? can i ask judge or is judge obliged to throw the case out if proved that prosecution distorted facts.

7. i already wrote to council and school about wrong facts - i hope that is right action from me? r they not obliged to correct it and respond to me? no response.

8. how to find that government 95% rule of attendance covers which duration and takes away all absences or only unauthorised absences?** this is critical as council is calculating percentage only on 5 months gap. in my opinion every academic year based on register should be treated separately as an entity.

9. i feel council cannot prosecute me for last year april absence as more than 6 months later they started court proceedings.

10. lastly, how likely is it to get this covered by newspapers? i do not want that.

11. my spouse trusted me with this matter but spouse is also now being summoned to court. can spouse plead not guilty and make me their respresentative in court?


thanks and please help me as much as possible folks.



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:34) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 13 May 2019 - 22:13) *
There is no point asking him to attend unless you disagree with something he says in his witness statement. If he says he did not authorise your request and you agree he did not authorise it, why do you want him to attend?

Or he has evidence the defence wants before the court.


basically he never mentioned why my leave request is not exceptional. based on his response to my query, i will explain in court that usually children see grandparents on weekends and short breaks but we have to wait for whole year and that too maximum of 3 weeks. this is exceptional so head did not make right decision. will this help my case or not please? please advise...
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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 06:12
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Does it matter whether the head teacher thought it was exceptional or not, at the end of the day the court will decide if it was exceptional or not, so the headteacher reaffirming he believes it wasn't wouldn't help you.

QUOTE
3. exceptional leave request for 10 days off to combine with october half term so total of 3 weeks to meet my parents in NC and that time my prominent religious festival also fell. leave denied but i had to go as i was desperate. no action taken by school as they had missed my email request.

The obvious contradiction here needs fixing, if he missed your email how could he have denied it. You need to adjust your language, being desperate doesn't mean you had to go!

If you can prove their allegation of number of days off is wrong it will help your case, people are rarely dishonest in these cases (why would they be), but they may well have made a mistake.

Don't even go down the human rights route you'll muddy the issues.


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samthecat
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 06:35
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A question.......

Does it make any difference if the court considers the initial request for an authorised absence was reasonable?

The OP had the request denied and then took the children out of school anyway. That would seem to make the offence complete.

Happy to be told im wrong but it seems some of the circumstances being discussed are possibly not that relevant to the court case.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:08
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QUOTE (samthecat @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 07:35) *
Does it make any difference if the court considers the initial request for an authorised absence was reasonable?

The OP had the request denied and then took the children out of school anyway. That would seem to make the offence complete.

As always, if the response was wholly unreasonable then it is equally unreasonable for the court to punish someone for ignoring it.

Andy-F puts that much better than I but the meaning and result are the same.


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Jlc
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:27
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For reference s144 of Education Act 1996 is here.

There's been some high profile cases in recent years also involving the Supreme Court. It's the definition of "regularly' that is the key part but has been decided as in "accordance with school rules".

"Exceptional circumstances" would likely amount to seriously ill family or a funeral. A "family visit/holiday" is unlikely to amount to such circumstances.

Like many criminal offences they do not need to offer a penalty notice as an alternative to prosecution.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:28


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Steve_999
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 08:54
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One small point, you say that ". . . .attendance register shows 15 days off in period of 5 months and they are saying 30 days!!.

Are you sure that it says 30 days? I only ask because schools always used to count attendance for morning and afternoon as separate periods, so it may say 30 periods.
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Logician
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 10:21
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I have never been involved in one of these cases, but I would think that the court would not want to go behind the headmaster's decision unless it was wholly unreasonable. Nothing you have said sounds to me as though it was wholly unreasonable, your visit was simply to see your parents to keep in touch, there was no emergency element about it, and with planning it could have been arranged to take place during a holiday period, even if that would be later than you would have preferred to go.

That is why I suggested you should concentrate on the errors that the Council have made Can you look again at what they have said and see if they have said "periods" rather than "days" as Steve_999 has suggested above? Are the letters that the Council say they sent correctly addressed to you?


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chawal2
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:19
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 09:54) *
One small point, you say that ". . . .attendance register shows 15 days off in period of 5 months and they are saying 30 days!!.

Are you sure that it says 30 days? I only ask because schools always used to count attendance for morning and afternoon as separate periods, so it may say 30 periods.


you may well be right. i will double check. thank you!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

All, i am grateful for your help. i have only 2 weeks left.

1. can council prosecute me across different academic years? and prosecute me for two separate absences which are 5 months apart - one in year 5 and one in year 6?
2. is school expected to list exceptional circumstances in attendance policy?
3. i read that council may say 'child's right to education' to which i am planning to say that pilgrimage is a valuable practical religious education which will go a long way in strengthening DC religious concept.
4. in past parents of british naturalised citizens have been granted permanent residence to settle in UK based on human right of british citizens. i mean to say that this is a powerful point in my case? without this i will lose case.
5. once in life time pilgrimage should be classified as exceptional i think??
6. i have been following the high profile attendance cases including of Jon Plat in supreme court. my case is different due to two reasons:

6.1. my parents r in india and wedding of grandparents is listed among exceptional cases as per council email to me - my parents 50th wedding anniversary was one of lifetime event - (regarding 5 days off in april 2018)
6.2 children meeting grandparents as my other child (OC) had not met them after december 2017 and waiting till august 2019 would have been too long and i combined october trip with religious pilgrimage.

--------------------------------------------
i have seen media cases where parent wedding and holiday to disneyland etc has been prosecuted by council successfully. these both seem avoidable to me (although i think this education law violates parents human right and i am surprised why british public is not objecting to it)
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is it right to say: I please Not Guilty as law was applied incorrectly. Law does not apply to exceptional circumstances. lack of due diligence on part of school head. wrong interpretation of pilgrimage request.
----------------------------------------------

I have no relatives in UK.
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v v imp: my pilgrimage leave for october has been misinterpreted by school: i had requested pilgrimage as the proposed october leave period was very auspicious due to a festival falling in october during that time. school failed to understand request and without trying to understand written request from me, they enquired council about leave for that festival. that festival does not need leave. it can be observed in evenings. and then they prosecuted me.
---------------------------------------------------

please help me. sad.gif

This post has been edited by chawal2: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:20
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chawal2
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:42
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QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:21) *
I have never been involved in one of these cases, but I would think that the court would not want to go behind the headmaster's decision unless it was wholly unreasonable. Nothing you have said sounds to me as though it was wholly unreasonable, your visit was simply to see your parents to keep in touch, there was no emergency element about it, and with planning it could have been arranged to take place during a holiday period, even if that would be later than you would have preferred to go.

That is why I suggested you should concentrate on the errors that the Council have made Can you look again at what they have said and see if they have said "periods" rather than "days" as Steve_999 has suggested above? Are the letters that the Council say they sent correctly addressed to you?


letters were correctly addressed. that is why i believe they never sent me intentionally as they knew i will try my best to get those cancelled and not let it go to prosecution. for better understanding, it may be worth adding here:
1. when they sent me penalty notice for april 2018 visit to my parents for 5 days for 50th wedding anniversary which is rare and once in life time. i wrote to MP and councillor and senior council staff and they told me to speak to head and indirectly the penalty notice was dropped as no action was taken for 6 months. so obviously attendance department must have been upset with me as they must have got pressure from senior staff due to my pleading them.
2. so second time attendance team secretly planned and intentionally did not send me any letter and must have taken approval from MP, councillor and harrow senior staff as this time none responded to my pleading - neither MP nor councillor nor top council officers. (although i can assure u that last october was my last chance to take any term time off/or do any religious trip with my kids as my OC is in GCSE and by the time OC will finish A levels, my younger DC will start GCSE. so i will only go in august from this year.)
-----------------------------------
i fully appreciate and grateful to your support Logician even though this may not be your current specialisation

QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:21) *
I have never been involved in one of these cases, but I would think that the court would not want to go behind the headmaster's decision unless it was wholly unreasonable. Nothing you have said sounds to me as though it was wholly unreasonable, your visit was simply to see your parents to keep in touch, there was no emergency element about it, and with planning it could have been arranged to take place during a holiday period, even if that would be later than you would have preferred to go.


1. april 2018 visit was emergency/unavoidable as one cannot attend 50th celebration before or after the wedding date chosen 50 years ago without my influence.
2. i could not go in august 2018 due to DC 11 plus exams in september and october; and my OC could not go after october 2018 due to GCSE work load. so inspite of due diligence and planning if i did not go in october then i would go in august 2019 causing unreasonable gap of 20 months for my older child (OC).
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headteacher response was wholly unreasonable in my opinion - as i mentioned 'once in lifetime' for both trips which sadly were only 5 months apart.

and each time head only mentioned:'we cannot authorise so council can penalise you etc'. no reason. no discussion.

if experts still think headteacher written witness or in person should not be requested then i will not do that. thanks all


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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 11:48
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 07:12) *
Does it matter whether the head teacher thought it was exceptional or not, at the end of the day the court will decide if it was exceptional or not, so the headteacher reaffirming he believes it wasn't wouldn't help you.

QUOTE
3. exceptional leave request for 10 days off to combine with october half term so total of 3 weeks to meet my parents in NC and that time my prominent religious festival also fell. leave denied but i had to go as i was desperate. no action taken by school as they had missed my email request.

The obvious contradiction here needs fixing, if he missed your email how could he have denied it. You need to adjust your language, being desperate doesn't mean you had to go!

If you can prove their allegation of number of days off is wrong it will help your case, people are rarely dishonest in these cases (why would they be), but they may well have made a mistake.

Don't even go down the human rights route you'll muddy the issues.


15 days off would be 30 unauthorised absences (30 register entries AM and PM)


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chawal2
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 13:28
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 12:48) *
15 days off would be 30 unauthorised absences (30 register entries AM and PM)

yes thanks i will check.

folks i will appreciate your valuable support in other points. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by chawal2: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 13:29
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Logician
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 14:23
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Have you tried other forums such as Mumsnet and Money Saving Expert? This is not our area at all, and even those with experience of magistrates courts will not necessarily have come across school attendance cases. Also perhaps Citizens Advice.

This post has been edited by Logician: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 14:24


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jdh
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 15:15
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Tue, 14 May 2019 - 09:54) *
One small point, you say that ". . . .attendance register shows 15 days off in period of 5 months and they are saying 30 days!!.

Are you sure that it says 30 days? I only ask because schools always used to count attendance for morning and afternoon as separate periods, so it may say 30 periods.

That is true but the OP also specifically said dates included September when there wasn’t any absence.

I know from my own experiences where my son has had lots of hospital appointments where we have no choice of time/date it goes down as an absence even though there’s a very good reason for it. We also had 1 week’s exceptional leave granted early in the school year so every month we got the naughty boy letters as in %age terms it started off very badly but was within the target by year end.
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NeilCr
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 15:22
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You could try LegalBeagles.
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chawal2
post Tue, 14 May 2019 - 17:15
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I find volunteers very sensible and experienced so if any one of u can help then do please help me.

I had taken attendance copies of my DC from school to prepare court evidence. I find 2 unauthorised absences in it when i had asked for permission in advance in email correspondence and response received. One for a secondary school open day visit and other authorised by council for religious observance 1 day. Head refuses to answer why they r unauthorised and if he can confirm they should have been authorised.

He told me to contact council.

This seems wrong as school holds data. Any thoughts what i should do now? Thanks

This post has been edited by chawal2: Tue, 14 May 2019 - 17:16
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