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CP plus PCN - broken down in Winchester services.
ozmusafir
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:23
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Hi,

Received a PCN from CP Plus for overstaying at the Winchester Services on the 24th Nov 18.
The PCN arrived 12th Jan 19 with 2 photos showing entry (9.33AM) and exit (2.38PM) times.
The driver did not overstay but he had in fact broken down at the services and waiting for the recovery team to come assist them.

The car is on a lease agreement, therefore the driver is not the legal or registered keeper.

Regards

This post has been edited by ozmusafir: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 19:09
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post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:23
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ostell
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:43
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Yes, frustration of contract. Circumstances beyond the control of the driver made it impossible to comply with the terms of the contract.

First you don't identify the driver. Use "the driver ......" etc.

Send an appeal as the keeper stating that the contract was frustrated by the breakdown of the car, and here's the paperwork from the breakdown company.

But first post up the redacted PCN, both sides
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cabbyman
post Sat, 12 Jan 2019 - 11:45
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EDIT your post so as not to identify the driver. Refer to 'the driver.' This is CRUCIAL.

Is this a lease vehicle? Who is the Registered Keeper? What was the date of the alleged parking incident, the date of the PCN and the date you received it?


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ozmusafir
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 10:13
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See above for detail.

This post has been edited by ozmusafir: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:06
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bearclaw
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 10:17
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Did you ever get a notice to Hirer? Or notice to keeper?

Can you post up the paperwork suuitably redacted for people to look at?
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ManxRed
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 10:50
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You still need to edit your post, you are still implying who the driver was.


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ostell
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:11
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Multiple legal positions: driver, keeper, registered keeper, hirer. Can be all the same or each different.

So with a lease car then they have to send with the notice a copy of the hire agreement and the original Notice to Keeper that went to the hire company. They rarely do. If this is correct then you send the following to them:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


You send it so that it arrives 2 days before 21 days from the date of the letter. This is so they do not get a chance to submit a new Notice to Hirer that has the correct documents.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:11
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ozmusafir
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:12
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 10:50) *
You still need to edit your post, you are still implying who the driver was.


Original message revised.
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ozmusafir
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:36
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:11) *
Edit post #4. The keeper received ....... From now on in it's the keeper.

Multiple legal positions: driver, keeper, registered keeper, hirer. Can be all the same or each different.

So with a lease car then they have to send with the notice a copy of the hire agreement and the original Notice to Keeper that went to the hire company. They rarely do. If this is correct then you send the following to them:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


You send it so that it arrives 2 days before 21 days from the date of the letter. This is so they do not get a chance to submit a new Notice to Hirer that has the correct documents.


.....

This post has been edited by ozmusafir: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:06
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ostell
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:48
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For a hire car they have to get the Notice to Hirer out within 21 days of getting the information from the hire company, POFA 14 (3)

It's not a fine, it's an invoice.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 13:12
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Ollyfrog
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:57
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You still need to edit post #4... and now post 9 too.

The driver, drove on the day and was last seen boarding a slow train to China so consequently has received sweet Fanny Adam from anybody. You, as keeper/hirer of the vehicle at the time appear to have received a deficient notice to hirer as Ostell predicted, so yes, that's the reason to send it late enough that they can't correct their error before it times out for POFA and they no longer have the ability to transfer liability from the driver to the keeper.

BTW - it's not a fine

Beat me to it Ostell! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Ollyfrog: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 12:58
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ozmusafir
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 19:08
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This is the fine invoice.




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ostell
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 20:03
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The front is insufficient to hold the keeper liable. Check it against paragraph 14 of POFA. But if the documents were not there then that is enough. Send the suggested letter
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cabbyman
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 20:39
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+1


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